Tenant does not pass on benefit

[Joe Cool]

I have had a tenant in a rented flat for 9 weeks, and I have given her some leeway while she sorts out a complicated Housing Benefit situation.

 

This is now cleared up, and the first payment of £300 has gone to her, as it must under the new Scottish law.

 

But she has spent it, and given none of it to me. Another cheque is due to her this week, and again I fear it will not be passed on.

 

What recourse is open to me? The housing law is so weighted against landlords, but I feel she must be committing some sort of offence by intercepting money the council is giving to her to pass on to me.

 

Starting the lengthy and expensive eviction process is too painful to contemplate - and even when I get her out, my hope of recouping any money will disappear with her.

[Zamzara]

The housing law is so weighted against landlords, but I feel she must be committing some sort of offence by intercepting money the council is giving to her to pass on to me.

 

It isn't weighted against you. If you take court action and correctly follow the procedure, eviction is certain if there are two months arrears.

[incrediblesulk]

My first post here (ever) but I hope it helps - I calim LHA (new 'Housing Benefit') and the claimant (in UK) CAN have the money sent to Landlord; they have to give a reason but it's easy to do. I did it for my Landlord; I just said that i'm bad with money and cant trust myself to not spend it.

It amy be a bit late for this tenant but if/when you evict her you can do it with the next.

Hope it helps.

[KJD]

Hi, we had tenants last year who were in receipt of HB, but we only got one payment. They kept spinning us lines about problems with the council, but that it was due, etc etc. In the end, they 'did a runner'. We were so cross, I rang the council and they told us if the tenant goes into two payments in arrears you can apply to the council to have it paid direct. Obviously it's too late for us now (although the fraud dept are hunting them down!), but I would make a call to the council now, and just ask the question. They might not be able to help you yet, but they might 'flag' her file, which ultimately will help you if this carries on.

[davethorp]

Whenever I've had to apply for housing benefit there has always been an option to pay it direct to landlord. As I know what I am like with money I always take this option

[Bookworm]

Yes, but is that the same in Scotland? Joe said "under new Scottish law", it makes me wonder whether things might not be different up there. Whenever I have had lodgers, as they were usually troubled teenagers (long story), I always made sure the agreement was that I would get the HB paid direct to me (just as well considering how some of them behaved in the end... another long story...), but again this is England, don't know how it works up in Scotland.

 

Either way, Joe, I suggest you have a word with your council and see what they may suggest. If nothing can be done, you will have to take action to evict her, otherwise, she'll be there at your expense forever! Meanwhile, you'll have to take her to Small Claims to recover the missing months anyway and I'd suggest you get that process started asap, independently of any eviction process you may start at a later stage.

[incrediblesulk]

I would certainly kick her out - do you have a clause in your tenancy agreement?

I know a lot of landlords can automatically evict you if you owe more than £400.

 

I know that will mean she's out of your sight but at the end of the day if the worse comes to the worse and you never see any money (unlikely cuz the Council will chase her for wripping them off), then at least you don't lose MORE money.

 

Also, I'd think about having a word with your Council. I'd say something like :

"There's a shortage of property for the unemployed in my are. I am willing to house them on the understanding that HB will go directly to me. If this is not automatically possible then I will be forced to rent to the private sector only."

 

But then I am a bit cheeky

[ErikaPNP]

Yes, it is the same in Scotland re rent being paid directly to the landlord. There is a part of the form the occupant can complete for this to be implemented, although I don't know whether the landlord can request the council to change it to direct payment.

 

I would give them a ring and ask, the worst they can say is no, or refuse to discuss it due to "data protection"

[Joe Cool]

Zamzara, you are clearly on the other side of the fence here. By the assured tenancy laws in Scotland a tenant doesn't have to move out for three months after you've given them the eviction notice. The landlord doesn't get a bean.

I am already £1000 down, my solicitor says £600 for the court process to evict, and civil court judgments can't be enforced if the tenant still doesn't pay up.

My total costs here will be £5000. I say the law is weighted against me, because the tenant will have had five months' accommodation at my expense. If the law wasn't against me, I could go round tomorrow and change the locks.

[Joe Cool]

The law in Scotland changed in May this year. To empower tenants (ho ho) councils were instructed to pay Housing Benefit direct to them, unless there was an exceptional reason not to do so.

The empowered tenant could then contact the council with a valid reason not to be given the money, but to have it given to the landlord direct. It has to be the tenant's choice.

The Labour intelligentsia who came up with this wheeze did not stop to consider the housing laws.

That's why I have an empowered tenant who is living it up on £400 of my money every month.

And will do for the foreseeable future.

What say, zamzara?

[Joe Cool]

Thanks for your replies, KD, Erika, Sulk, Dave and Bookworm. I will speak to the council, but with faint hope of any quick solution.

I think the truth of this matter is that tenants have hit on a winning formula.

They move in (nobody in this area has a deposit) and apply for Housing Benefit. Here in Fife it takes six weeks to process. Then the money rolls in to the tenant at £400 a month, and we have to wait TWO months before we can complain.

So that's 14 weeks of free accommodation, plus a minimum of £800 hard cash to play with.

Then you move out, and on you go to the next place.

Now before anybody says I should get references and a deposit, nobody in this area of high deprivation would be able to let any accommodation if these criteria were insisted upon.

But thanks, you guys, for your input. It helps to hear from people who have been in similar positions.

I'll make an appointment to see a council officer, but I think I'll take a day or two to cool down first!

[ErikaPNP]

Have you sent any red letters to the tenant to advise her the account is in arrears? (as if she didn't know)

 

I may be misunderstood here, but as far as I am aware, the tenant has to have at least three advisory letters prior to the commencement of court proceedings. If this is correct for private landlords, then perhaps you should begin sending letters now (if you haven't already) in order to speed the process up when you can go to court. The first one may be for example an advisory letter, and requesting that she contact you to make a repayment plan, the second along the same lines, and the third, advising eviction proceedings will be commenced if she does not pay the full outstanding amount within 14 days. (That's the standard letters, as far as I am aware) Ooh, and make sure they are sent recorded delivery so that you have a record of them being received.

 

I appreciate the costs of an eviction are very high indeed, however if you don't go down that road, would you end up losing further finances at her leisure?

[Zamzara]

The law in Scotland changed in May this year. To empower tenants (ho ho) councils were instructed to pay Housing Benefit direct to them, unless there was an exceptional reason not to do so.

The empowered tenant could then contact the council with a valid reason not to be given the money, but to have it given to the landlord direct. It has to be the tenant's choice.

The Labour intelligentsia who came up with this wheeze did not stop to consider the housing laws.

That's why I have an empowered tenant who is living it up on £400 of my money every month.

And will do for the foreseeable future.

What say, zamzara?

 

If the tenant wasn't on housing benefit the position would be exactly the same (they could choose not to pay the rent), so the housing benefit in your case is a red herring. The housing benefit system is the same UK-wide; the change was brought in so landlords don't have to be involved in the bureaucracy of the benefit claim and are not involved in having overpayments recovered from them. One admitted big disadvantage is that if a tenant incurs large bank charges their HB can be swallowed up by them.

 

I'm not familiar with Scottish housing law, so I didn't realise the eviction process is different. If you are unable to evict I do sympathise as that sounds very unfair.

[Joe Cool]

Zamzara, the benefit element of my statement is no red herring. Unless you have dealt with people on benefit, you might not know that here in Scotland there are specialist organisations and charities to help them, free of charge, with legal advice and letters designed to hinder and delay any action against them, to let them stay in their accommodation for as long as possible. It is absolutely iniquitous that some of these Philadelphia lawyers are funded by the very councils they are helping tenants to cheat out of money.

An example: In another of my properties live a decent disabled couple on benefit. They were ASKED on a social visit to a drop-in centre if they would like to make any complaint about their property. After thinking for some time, they remembered they had once seen a mouse in the house.

The next day I received a stiff letter from a housing charity advising me of my obligations under the environment rules, and giving me seven days to exterminate all rodents from the property.

I then had to make a visit to the couple, who said they were pressured into thinking up anything to complain about. I also had to write a polite letter to the charity telling them I had taken the appropriate action concerning the mouse. These people have more time and money than I do to pursue frivolities, so I figure it's best to keep them sweet.

[Joe Cool]

Hello Erika: I have indeed sent letters (nine in all) advising of the rising arrears, keeping myself right despite my decision to allow the tenant some leeway to sort out a very messy personal situation.

I took them to the flat personally, and gave them to to her.

I think that if I were to mention eviction, she would take the letter to the nearest housing action group and I will be swamped with paperwork, legal and otherwise, which will see this drag out to next Summer.

My main hope is that my regular meetings with her (there's another one tomorrow) will enable her to see the error of her ways.

You see, the tantalising complexity of these cases is that if I can receive the benefit direct, these DSS tenants usually turn out to be fine once you've taken away the temptation of stealing the rent money.

I will let you know how I fare tomorrow!

[Chris1933]

How did the meeting go???

 

Good Luck

[Joe Cool]

Hello Chris: The day went well, thanks. I arrived home for lunch at 12.30 to prepare for the meeting at 1. Lying on my mat was £300 cash, and a letter saying the tenant didn't have the energy to go through it all again with me, and she was quitting the flat this coming Saturday.

This £300 represents the first of her Housing Benefit payments. She will have been in the flat 10 weeks when she leaves, which is £1,100 in rent.

What she didn't say is that she is already in possession of a second payment of £400. If I can get this, I might call it quits.

I know she will disappear forever on Saturday, so I have had to instruct my lawyer to hand-deliver to her this afternoon a letter threatening the wrath of God if she dares to abscond with the money.

We'll see what the week brings, and keep you up to date with any news.

By the way, I'm a betting man, so here are my odds:

 

Tenant absconds with money - 1/100

 

Tenant damages flat -1/2

 

I get my money - 100/1

 

Council offers to assist me - 1000/1

[ErikaPNP]

Is it worth persuing through the small claims court?

 

"Haven't the energy to go through it all again" - what a flaming cheek! Sorry but it really bugs me when people walk around with the attitude that everything in life should be resolved for them, for goodness sake, she is an adult, and as such needs to take responsibility for her actions! I'd maybe report her for benefit fraud as well, you can do it online. As she has not used the benefit for its intended purpose, and as her landlord you have proof of such that you have not received the rent.

 

Apologies for the rant. Some people just have a really bad attitude and bite the hand that feeds them.

[Joe Cool]

Hi again Erika:

 

The problem with the Small Claims Court in Scotland (and probably in England) is that its judgments cannot be enforced.

 

Obtaining a judgment against my tenant would be straightforward, but if she chooses to ignore it, I have no further options.

 

If she runs off with my £400 I'll make a direct claim to the council, but your idea of reporting the benefit fraud is worth considering. Thanks!

[KJD]

Definately report her if she doesn't pay you. As said in my previous post we did and we still get the odd call from the fraud people to see if we've heard any thing from our old tenants. Also, if she tries to claim HB again, she'll come unstuck.

 

I feel the same way as Erika in that it makes me mad when people abuse the system. It's our taxes etc that help people to pay their rent (I was brought up in household which survived solely on benefits for most of my childhood) and people who abuse the system are making it harder for the genuine claims. You only have to look around this site to see how many people are having to 'pay' for those who get away with it.

 

Good luck and keep us informed.

[Chris1933]

Hello Chris: The day went well, thanks. I arrived home for lunch at 12.30 to prepare for the meeting at 1. Lying on my mat was £300 cash, and a letter saying the tenant didn't have the energy to go through it all again with me, and she was quitting the flat this coming Saturday.

This £300 represents the first of her Housing Benefit payments. She will have been in the flat 10 weeks when she leaves, which is £1,100 in rent.

What she didn't say is that she is already in possession of a second payment of £400. If I can get this, I might call it quits.

I know she will disappear forever on Saturday, so I have had to instruct my lawyer to hand-deliver to her this afternoon a letter threatening the wrath of God if she dares to abscond with the money.

We'll see what the week brings, and keep you up to date with any news.

By the way, I'm a betting man, so here are my odds:

 

Tenant absconds with money - 1/100

 

Tenant damages flat -1/2

 

I get my money - 100/1

 

Council offers to assist me - 1000/1

 

 

I'll have £12 on you get your money:???:

 

Confused????? - well here's my logic,

 

I'll pay you the £1100, then I win the bet and you pay me £1200, and you've very kindly credited me with 100 beer tokens:)

 

Sorry couldn't help myself, seriously though I hope you get it sorted, I agree with Erika, this site mainly helps honest people who are struggling with finances but your tenant blatently wants to rent dodge and play the "system" and I hope she gets everything thats coming to her.