Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • A full-scale strike at the firm could have an impact on the global supply chains of electronics.View the full article
    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Bailiffs have taken my van off my driveway, do i have a leg to stand on ?


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5703 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

hi tomtubby,

 

i have just been on the phone to the council, they said that no one in the office knows much about the fees etc and the only man who does is the head of recovery. They say he will be in the office later today and will call me with a matter of urgency. I told the person i just spoke to the fees the bailiffs charged charged me over the phone, and i assume he took a note of this. He said he couldnt comment and that the man in charge of recovery is the only person with any knowledge of these situations. He said he would pass this info on to the 'main man' and that the 'main man' would get in touch with the bailiffs and then be in touch with me. They also stated that the total amount i owe is £524.90 + £791.61 = £1316.51

 

Is there anything else i can do in the meantime, i only ask as i feel a little useless just sitting here, especially if there is something that i can do.

 

Cheers and thanks for your time.

Edited by stanns
Link to post
Share on other sites

The appellant makes a complaint to a justice of the peace and requests the issue of a summons requiring the authority whichlevied, or attempted to levy, the distress to appear before the court to answer to the matter bywhich the person is aggrieved. It is the local authority, and not the person who levied thedistress on their behalf, who must answer such a complaint in the magistrates’ court.

 

 

I think that means an N244 application which you can download here

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n244_e.pdf

 

 

 

TT, any comment?

Link to post
Share on other sites

SUGGESTED LETTER

 

The Chief Clerk

Anytown Magistrates Court

Address

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing to request that you issue a Summons against --Enter name of City Council-- by virtue of Regulation 46 Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992.

 

I am aggrieved by the levy carried out by ......... on ......... because the levy clearly fails to meet the requirements set out in the case of Ann Ambrose -v- Nottingham City Council.

 

I enclose a copy of the inventory that was left by ......... following the levy.

 

I trust this will be sufficient and please do not hesitate to contact me if you require further information.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

I can't take the credit for finding that one - it looks great!

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi chris and thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

 

Will i now need to download and complete a form 4 complaint, along with a N244 application and take or send the suggested letter to the magistrates court ?

 

Also, in the blank fields on the suggested letter, do i just insert B&S or do i need to contact B&S to get the name of the bailiff who removed the van ?

 

Cheers and thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi, its now 11:30a.m. and i still havent heard back from the council regarding the fees. I'm still waiting to hear from the head of recovery.

 

I've also just come off the phone to B&S and they have given me the name of the bailiff who removed my van.

 

How do i go about checking that this bailiff is certified ?

 

Also, at what stage should complete all the prementioned forms?

 

any help would be much appreciated...cheers and thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If the bailiff was not certificated then the van must be released but I am no longer allowed to search so will instead post details of the relevant court the B & S bailiffs' normally use.

 

There is something that you can do that is not used very often which is a Regulation 46 Complaint to the Magistrates Court to ask them to agree to remove the levy on the vehicle. This complaint is becoming far more common and we have seen many of these cases recently.It is a simple form that you need to take into your local Magistrates Court early tomorrow.

 

I will adapt one used a few days ago and post here for you later this morning.

 

Hopefully TT will be back on soon with the number so you can check the bailiff cert.

 

Also the letter in post 31 probably needs to be checked by TT. She mentioned that she will adapt the letter so may be different to the one posted. It talks about an incorrect levy so she may have questions to check if yours was indeed incorrect. Have you got a copy of the levy they made on your car? The wording seems to be quite important. :wink:

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi KJD and thanks for your response, much appreciated.

 

Firstly, i have just come off the phone to the OFT (020 7211 86081) and gave them the name of the bailiff that removed my van and the company he works for (B&S). The lady ran a search and found the company (B&S) and she stated that the name given by myself (the bailiffs name who removed my van) was not on the register as being certified by B&S.

 

Also, i received two letters through the door when the van was taken yesterday. The first was a white letter titled 'INVENTORY'. The letter only contains the registration and a description of the van and my name and address, there are no figures or anything else on the letter. The blue letter that accompanied the white letter is the one that has all the figures on it. These figures are accurate as i double checked them before posting them on here previously. They are as follows:

 

council tax = 524.90

levy fee = 42.00

council tax = 791.61

levy fee = 49.00

attendance to levy fees = 67.00

costs incurred in attendance to remove goods = 360.00

costs incurred in the removal of goods = 380.00

contractors fee incurred in the removal of goods = 175.00

redemption of goods fee(Head H) = 24.50

 

Sub Total = 2414.01

 

Cheers and thanks for your time, much appreciated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, i received two letters through the door when the van was taken yesterday. The first was a white letter titled 'INVENTORY'. The letter only contains the registration and a description of the van and my name and address, there are no figures or anything else on the letter. The blue letter that accompanied the white letter is the one that has all the figures on it. These figures are accurate as i double checked them before posting them on here previously. They are as follows:

 

council tax = 524.90

levy fee = 42.00

council tax = 791.61

levy fee = 49.00

attendance to levy fees = 67.00

costs incurred in attendance to remove goods = 360.00

costs incurred in the removal of goods = 380.00

contractors fee incurred in the removal of goods = 175.00

redemption of goods fee(Head H) = 24.50

 

Sub Total = 2414.01

 

Cheers and thanks for your time, much appreciated.

 

Okay, so this raises a question which has occurred to me several times recently when reading peoples threads...

 

I thought that the idea of a levy is so that the bailiffs have some sort of 'collateral' on which to make you pay up. Ie, they levy on your van, so you can't do anything with it until you have either paid or come to an arrangement to pay. So, how come they can levy and then remove straight away? Surely that defeats the object. Or have I misunderstood?

 

Also, the figures above are clearly wrong because, as TT said, they can only charge one levy fee, even if for two 'debts'. And what's this costs + costs + contractors fee? That's a total of £915 to remove a van??

 

This link was posted on another thread yesterday re the fees which can be charged (thanks to jenjuly82)

 

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w16/jenjuly82/scan0001.jpg

 

I guess the problem is what is classed as "reasonable fees and expenses".

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi, i have just come off the phone to the supervisor at the council tax office. The head of recovery didnt call me back so i called again and got passed onto the supervisor who stated the following;

 

She is not aware of any details in the contract that allows bailiffs to make two levy charges, she said she does not know any details of the contract and nor does anyone else at the office. She said she would have thought that a levy can be charged on each account, she then spoke to the information help desk or something and they too said, they thought that levys can be charged on each account. My thoughts after speaking to the supervisor is that nobody at the council tax office knows the details of the contract written between B&S and the council. The supervisor also stated that, all they do is contract a bailiff firm stating who owes money, the bailiff firm then collects the debt and charges whatever they wish.

 

The supervisor then stated, she had made a note for the manager for council tax to give me a ring as he may be able to enlighten me further.

 

SUMMARY:

 

At this moment in time i have found out that the bailiff who removed my van was not under license from B&S according to the search carried out this morning by the OFT, the search was carried out just using the bailiffs name and company(B&S).

 

I have also found out that i should have been informed that the van was going to be removed enabling me to remove my tools, i was not informed of a date for the removal of the van.

 

I have also found out that the council have no idea as to what bailiffs charge, they just pass them the debt, the bailiffs recover the amount and charge the recipient whatever they choose to.

 

At this moment in time i am none of the wiser as to what to do.

 

Also, is there any questions that i could ask the council tax manager other than whether or not it is written in their agreement about charging seperate levys?

 

cheers and thanks for your time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The following is a Regulation 46 Complaint Letter. I have adapted this for you using the information provided in your posts. This can be further changed or adapted as you wish.

I will post back here later to advise what you need to do with this document.

The Chief Clerk

XXX Magistrates Court

 

 

October 15th 2008.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Council Ref: xxxxxx

 

I am writing to request that you issue a Summons against Nottingham City Council by virtue of Regulation 46 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regs 1992 as a matter of urgency.

 

I am aggrieved by the levy carried out by Bristow & Sutor (Certificated Bailiffs) on 14th October 2008 for the following reason:

 

  • I am a bricklayer by trade, and the levy was against a transit van that contained all of my work tools and which I believe is a “tool of the trade” for my use personally in the course of my employment. I am unable to work without this vehicle and its contents. The vehicle has been taken the vehicle pound by the bailiff after they removed the gates from my driveway. I am informed by them that the vehicle will be sold within 5 days.

  • The bailiff was enforcing two separate Liability Orders on behalf of Nottingham City Council and has charged a sum of £915 for the removal of this van which has been broken down as follows:

Levy Fee 1: £42.00

Levy Fee 2: £49.00

Attending to Levy: £67.00

Attending to remove: £360

Removal: £380

Contractors Fees: £175

Head H Fee: £24.50

 

 

I am enclosing a copy of the Notice of Seizure that was left by the bailiff than confirms the charges applied to my account.

 

I trust that this information will be sufficient and please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further information.

 

Yours faithfully.

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi tomtubby and thank you for taking the time to assemble a 46 complaint document. It is much appreciated to say the least.

 

I have now modified and saved the document and await further instructions from you.

 

I would also like to ask, would this document slow down the process of the bailiffs forwarding my van for auction?

 

cheers and thanks for your time.

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi folks, i'm trying to keep calm but at the same time i am starting to panic a little, time may be running out for me. The van was taken on tuesday and its now thursday, the bailiffs claim the van will go up for auction after 5 days...

 

I'm sitting with my fingers crossed...

 

 

cheers

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi TT, cheers and thanks, i do appreciate you taking time out to help me out and i also appreciate that you must be very busy too, so i'll just sit tight.

 

I would also like to ask, is therre anything else i can do regarding the bailiff that removed my van, he did not appear on the register during the search carried out by the OFT ?

 

Cheers and thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...