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    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Vehicle Finance - car repo'd , now Debt Sold On To Dca - illegal repo?


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Hi,

Had a vehicle on finance and defaulted in the last year of the loan.

The vehicle was repossessed but even though its value was more than was owed the finance company sent me a demand for over £2000.

Presumably the vehicle was sold at auction and was sold for less than it was worth

Didn't respond to the demand and didn't hear again for about a year or so.

The finance company finally made contact and again demanded payment.

I did respond but never paid anything.

About 6 months later I got a letter from a debt collection company to say the debt had been sold on.

They are now getting very pushy and I said I could only afford £50 a month and emailed a copy of monthly expenditure.

Have now received a letter asking for copy of wage slips, proof of benefits etc.

I have been reading on this site about others in a similar situation where debts have been sold on and the advice is to request copy CCA in most cases.

However, other cases studied all seem to be for bank accounts and credit cards.

Should I still request CCA for a vehicle finance loan?

Any help greatly appreciated.

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Hi Hogie,

 

Moving this to the General Debt forum where I hope you'll get appropriate advice.

 

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I'm sure that I have read read that if you had paid 2 thirds off the car agreement, then the car could not be reposessed. I'd do a search through the various forums, but hopefully someone may be able to confirm this.

 

Pete.

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That's what I was fishing for.

If you had paid at least one third of the total amount payable under the agreement then they needed either a court order or your consent.

If they had neither then you have the right to get back any money that you have paid under the agreement.

(In Scotland they may need to get a court order at any time).

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Thank you all for advice and support.

 

Paid off 3 years of a 4 year agreement. We were warned that veh would be reposessed if we couldn't pay so agreed that they could come and take it. But no written proof of this as all verbal.

 

If we had known it would be sold for less than its value we would have sold it ourselves and probably been able to settle all or nearly all of what we owed.

 

Am I entitled to ask for evidence of how much the finance company sold the vehicle for so that I can verify the amount of debt which was sold on to the debt collector?

 

Many thanks.

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Get a £1 postal order & send them this Recorded Delivery:

 

 

The Finance Coy

Address

 

Oct 13th 2008

 

 

 

 

Account No: 123456 CarCredit

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

With reference to the above agreement, we would be grateful if you would send us a copy of this credit agreement and a full breakdown of the account including any interest or charges applied.

 

We understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 [sections 77-79], we are entitled to receive a copy of any credit agreement and a statement of account on request. We enclose a payment of £1 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

We understand a copy of any credit agreement along with a statement of account should be supplied within 12 working days and that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with the request for a copy of the agreement and statement of account under these sections of the Act.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Hogie (Dont sign )

 

Then chill a little & start counting 12+ 2 days.;)

 

Just re-read your last post - send the letter to the DCA.

  • Haha 1
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Thank you so much for the advice and support.Letter sent today.12+2 days and counting!!!

 

That's what CAG is about.

 

I'll be posting tonight looking for some help myself.

We learn a little & then pass it on.:wink:

 

Don't forget to confirm via the Royal Mail website that it has been signed for.They all have a nasty habit of never receiving mail.

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Thank you POSTGGJ for directing me to CAZ's story.

However, the CCA and statement request I have just applied for is in respect of a car that I gave back with consent because I could not afford the rest of the payments.

Sent my CCA and statement request 5 days ago.

Today have received a post card requesting that I telephone to arrange a personal visit from a representative.

Should I reply and remind that I have sent the CCA request?

Can they send somebody without having made an appointment?

Would appreciate advice please.

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i take it that this will be a welcome rep,

they dont do this unless they are woried over something

this smells like welcome dont have an agreement

also they may not have a default notice either

 

send them a letter saying that you will have no further comunication with them until they comply with your cca request

 

this visit, another tactic, is to re-wright the loan

 

they can bog off till they comply

 

did you get a default notice and how old is the agreement

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Thanks for replying so quickly POSTGGJ.It is *******who I am dealing with, the debt was sold on to them. The Agreement was with *** taken out in 2002 and yes *** issued a default notice.However I will send a letter as you suggest.Thank you.

Edited by Hogie
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I wouldn't reply - they could be sweating having received your request and trying to panic you.

Anyone can knock on your door but you dont have to answer.

Chances of them paying someone to call "on spec" are pretty thin.

If anyone calls then tell them you are awaiting the CCA to see proof of the debt.

Then ask them to close the gate on the way out.;)

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they dont do this unless they are woried over something

this smells like welcome dont have an agreement

also they may not have a default notice either

 

 

 

I wouldn't reply - they could be sweating having received your request and trying to panic you.

 

 

 

Great minds think alike postggj ;)

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OK so I won't reply. As long as they cannot make anything of the fact that I am effectively ignoring them. Have edited and removed names of the companies involved as I have just seen a warning that they are likely to read our threads. Paranoid or what!!!Thanks once more for the advice.

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You shouldn't owe them anything,you have paid enough off the finance agreement.If the car was sold for £1 once they had taken it back thats their probelm.Provided the car was in reasonable condition ie not a wreck.Unless they went to court and got a repo order? you will not be liable for any monies owing.

All commnication via letter don't talk to them on the phone.

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and screw the consumer again

same old story

i am in agreement with the chancellor on this one

it will be odds on that the finance company will have no info on returning the vehicle,

they would be more interested in the repo

cant comment any more until the results on the sar are back to confirm things

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Update - 5 days ago I requested copy CCA and statement from the people who bought my debt from original vehicle finance company. They have sent 2 things - a copy of the Hire Purchase Agreement Form which I and the finance co. signed and a spreadsheet list of payments made, printed onto their own headed paper.

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