AA99 v MBNA (Account 1)

[AA99]

Thanks for that Lexis, I have only done the CCA letter and the harrassment/writing only letter. I thought the SAR letter was only to provide me with all statements, correspondence from them, which I do in fact have on file. Also, haven't bothered with claiming charges as I didn't think I could do that with an account I was in arrears with?? Am I wrong? Finally got them all drawn up and printed off and ready to go to the post office first thing in the morning so would appreciate your reply. Sorry, it's late and am sure you are as tired as me

[Chalkitup]

Hello,

 

If you S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) then they have to send you everything they have about you.

 

The letter here may help ....... play about with it to suit......

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/148387-help48xxx-mbna-6.html

 

See Post 306

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[lexis200]

Okie dokie

 

I'm finding a lot of threads asserting that being on benefits does mean you do not have any spare income. Any means tested benefits give you the minimum the government assesses you can live on, therefore there is no overpayment. The only problem I have thought of is that you have already offered the £20, and they may ask why, if nothing's changed with your income since you sent your details in, are you now offering less. It's your call how you play it, but I still think you're in a good position to be able to tell them you're offering more than you should to try and come to something acceptable to them.

 

Do bear in mind though, that if my story is anything to go on, they'll just ignore what you say and keep sending threatening/patronising/pointless letters. You keep paying what you can regardless of this, and just make sure you send a reply to all the cra* they'll send so they are always informed of this. My personal view is that your aim at the moment is to build up as much proof as you can that you're doing your best and paying what you can. After that, any action they choose to take will have to account for why they're pursuing you when you obviously can not pay what they want without causing you and your family severe hardship.

 

The S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) does provide you with all the bits you've mentioned, but also there may well be notes on any phone calls, and they have to document any correspondance received from you (like the 'missing' first I/E form). Also, if you specifically ask for it, they have to include the CCA. This was suggested to me by Hopeful1, who found that her CCA reqested agreement differed to her SAR requested agreement. This is a bit of a problem for the bank, as they then have to explain why they aren't exact copies.

 

I'm doing this with MBNA because at the moment the CCA I have from them looks enforceable, albeit without original t's and c's. I want to see if the CCAs match up! Thinking about it, this may be a better way for you to go - wait and see what the CCA throws up as it's cheaper, and it sounds like every penny counts (snap:)). If it doesn't go in your favour, try the SAR and see what you can get from that.

 

I don't think being in arrears stops you from claiming charges - it just means you need to be careful if you do have anything owing as they may pay it straight off the debt rather than to you. This is assuming any agreement is enforceable though, as if you claim charges and then dispute the debt, it looks a bit strange!

 

Good luck:)

[lexis200]

Btw - don't forget to send it all by Recorded delivery!!

[citizenB]

No, being in arrears does not prevent you from reclaiming any charges that have been applied to the account. However, they will be repaid into the account to reduce the debt. Although I understand that some people have successfully managed to have a cheque repaid to them on the grounds that they have other creditors.

[AA99]

Lexis, thank you so much, I think I got the gist now. Letters going 1st class recorded delivery in the morning! Watch this space!

Will also then hopefully have a minute to go back through allllllll my filing as to when each of these MBNA accounts were 'taken over' from the various other credit card companies..... might turn something interesting up?

[AA99]

Have been to the post office this morning and have sent off, recorded delivery, 1st class, 3 CCA requests and a postal order for £3, to MBNA, in addition to a separate letter harrassment/phone calls/writing only.

 

Confirm my deadline date for reply from them is Tuesday, 7th October ???

 

Y E A H ???????????

[robcag]

Have been to the post office this morning and have sent off, recorded delivery, 1st class, 3 CCA requests and a postal order for £3, to MBNA, in addition to a separate letter harrassment/phone calls/writing only.

 

Confirm my deadline date for reply from them is Tuesday, 7th October ???

 

Y E A H ???????????

 

Hi AA99

 

It's 12+2 working days (as opposed to calendar days)

 

Cheers

Rob

[AA99]

Hi AA99

 

It's 12+2 working days (as opposed to calendar days)

 

Cheers

Rob

 

Hi Rob

Confirm you mean 12 'any' days plus 2 working days? ie. from today, that would then be Tuesday 7th October ? or are we talking 12 working days plus 2 more working days, ie. Friday, 10th October ??

My DN from Crapital One was dated Sunday 31st August, so how does this apply ???? grrrrrrrrrrrrr:evil:

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello AA99!

 

It's 12 Working Days, but you need to allow +2 Working Days to allow for postage.

 

If they get it Tomorrow, then you are looking at around Monday 13th to be sure of covering the 12+2 Working Days.

 

Even then, watch your back, as the bankers will push that.

 

How?

 

Well, they do like to piddle around back-dating Letter Dates, then Post late hoping they can get away with that. They don't care what you think, the purpose is to hood wink a Judge maybe 6 Months from now if it goes to Court. By then, they hope it'll be their word against yours.

 

So, don't be surprised to get a CCA Response, or even just a token CCA Response (i.e. any old thing they think will look like they have complied), as late as Saturday the 18th, with a highly suspicious Letter Date saying, well, let's stick a pin in the Calendar shall we, how about the 8th?

 

No kidding, this is acceptable tactics for a bank, apparently...at least from my own direct experience.

 

Do always keep the Envelopes any banking Letters come in, as they may one day reveal the actual Date of Postage via Postal Barcode analysis. Likewise, if in the heat of battle with bankers, get your Postman to Sign/Date any suspicious looking Letters as they are delivered.

 

You might even get one where a banker has been dull enough to use a Dated Franking Stamp! Doh! They are not the brightest Crayons in the Colouring Box, so this can happen.

 

But you may see what their little game is. If/when it goes to Court, they will just swear blind it was posted on time, after all, look at the Letter Date M'Lud. Once that is accepted, then they will argue the token CCA they sent is valid, after all, let's not forget the Rankines Blaa Blaa M'Lud.

 

Your protestations that they are telling pork pies about the true Date of Service will then depend on the Judge, or could depend on you pulling out the postal dated Envelope!

 

CapitalOne Default Notice could be playing the same games, so keep the Envelope.

 

The DN should allow 14 Calendar Days from date of Service so, again, the Envelope could be very important. Particularly important when it comes to a DN.

 

The accepted Postal Rule is that something is deemed Served within +2 Working Days after Posting if sent via 1st Class Royal Mail. So, if they Dated the DN on the 31st August, which as you point out is a Sunday (suspicious in itself, do they work on Sundays?), then they could not have Posted it until Monday 1st September, so deemed Served +2 would make it the 3rd. That's assuming there are no Sunday collections in their neck of the woods.

 

You should have 14 Days from then, making the Statutory Deadline the 17th. That's if I'm reading my Calendar the right way up!

 

So, if they say you must do something by the 14th, thinking that's 14 Days, they would be making the DN invalid, as there is no way that gives you 14 clear Days from Date of Service.

 

Clear as mud right?

 

But I hope it helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[AA99]

BRW ! Many thanks for all that! Calendar duly marked with a highlighter pen!

[lexis200]

Excellent post BRW - I've clicky thinged you as you've given some really good info.

 

I've had the odd dates malarky too - among others, a letter posted first class, dated 7 days before I received it (and giving me 3 days to contact them:rolleyes:).

 

For what it's worth, I date the envelopes myself too, as well as marking on any letter when it was received (for my benefit, rather than a judges as obviously this would mean nothing in court), and I always respond to any letter sent, starting with 'Thank you for your letter dated xx, received by 2nd/1st class post on xx' It's not much, but I like to feel it's in writing that I've noticed the vagueries of their post times!

[angel_1]

hiya AA99 and everyone

 

you have had some brill replies ive subscribed to your thread as im in battle also with mbna

 

as always BRW and lexis200 have given valid points that im taking on board too, so thank you both - helped me too

 

keep positive as ive learned from this forum, its like a game of chess, all this but in the end you just have to get to the end in the best possible way -

 

have a fun day all ciao for now laters maz

[AA99]

Thanks Maz, stay in touch, am feeling quite frail with all this debt, and really do appreciate the encouragement. Me to you too

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Lexis200!

 

For what it's worth, I date the envelopes myself too, as well as marking on any letter when it was received (for my benefit, rather than a judges as obviously this would mean nothing in court), and I always respond to any letter sent, starting with 'Thank you for your letter dated xx, received by 2nd/1st class post on xx' It's not much, but I like to feel it's in writing that I've noticed the vagueries of their post times!

 

That's very wise. It may seem an unrewarding task but, over time, you are establishing a clear track record of how you communicate. You are also taking charge of them in doing so, i.e. by quoting Letter and Delivery Dates in your replies. Good work.

 

Thus, any glaring Postal Date/Letter Date games by the bankers will then stand out.

 

This could, potentially, save the day if something is date critical, such as a Default Notice.

 

It could also throw some very serious doubt on the integrity of the bankers concerned if you can show a long track record of highly dubious Letter Dates.

 

BTW, I'm still trying to read those Orange Royal Mail Barcodes...one day I will crack it, and then all of the Envelopes CAGGERs have saved may reveal Postal Dates! I can't promise I will, but I am working on trying to tease out the Code from Royal Mail.

 

Before anyone jumps in, the Orange Bar Codes are NOT using the Royal Mail 4 State Customer Code (RM4SCC). That I can read! It is not that, sadly!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[angel_1]

Hiya AA99

 

i understand totally how these debts can make you feel, without this forum and moneysavingexpert i think i could have ended up in the loony bin,,,, but now hoping to go back to work next week and will hope to get myself further out of this black hole ive been for the past year

 

so do as we have been told by the experts here , i wish id had this amount of help when i was starting out at the beg of the year, it took a few months to get really involved in this forum but i could have avoided so much stress, but now im so much stronger and you will be too, keep hanging in it will get better because knowledge is power:)

 

im going to take on board when i reply back in my letters like lexis200 and like BRW am saving all my envelopes too

 

have a good day everyone keep happy ciao for now laters

[davey77]

Hey AA99!

 

Thanks for looking through my posts.. hope some of it was a help. I really must start them all individually.. never thought it would reach 40 pages!

 

Looks like you are getting some sound advice here.. hope you feel more in control for it.

 

 

You mention bankruptcy.. it's something i considered although i didn't take that route as it all would have been too much for my old mum. As it stands, and after looking through this thread, i would say you doing very well and don't need to consider that at the moment.

Not sure quite how the detail works but it's not a quick fix that's for sure. A point though should you ever decide to go for it is that you must remember to give back all those DVDs and nice items you have on loan from all your friends and relatives.. of course, after bankruptcy is over then it would be nice to ask for them back. (You know what i mean.)

 

I don't think you need to go down that route though. Looks like you are getting some reasonable responses from many creditors and can pay them something each month for the most part. In your situation, as with mine, not having any assets or your own home the chance of a creditor actually taking you to Court (especially while you are paying them even a small amount) are 000.1% if that!

I almost begged a couple of my creditors to take me to Court but unless you have your own property or a Merc and 50" Tv that they know of, they won't spend the money on legal action.

 

You mention reducing the amount you pay and the suggestion of £300 a month to feed a family of four. Ignore all such statements. You are the best judge of what you and your family need to live on.

Something has changed in your income to warrant reducing payments and that is the high cost of living which has dramatically increased the last year compared to the lack of corresponding increase in Benefit payments.

That's the only information or reasoning you need give creditors. If you have a little left over then great but if that's £1, £10 or £17.85p a month then that's your concern. It's not up to a creditor to dictate what your food bill should be as long as you are truthful and don't suggest you need £999 a week for potatoes.

 

In regards to the SAR/CCA fees sent out, be prepared for a reply along the lines of "thank you for your payment, but it wasn't enough to clear your account".

Standard tactic to show, should it ever get to Court via a claim by you more likely, that you acknowledged the account and made a payment towards it, as well as avoiding complying with your request for documentation. Something to be aware of and nice complaint letter to head office usually remedies it.

 

The main thing at the mo seems to be the harassment by MBNA. GVI inc were polite but annoying as i remember. In fact that was the start of things and the phone ringing 8 times a day from MBNA alone was enough to give me grey hairs.

I did the usual. Administration of Justice Act, cease and desist all calls, only communicate in writing. Even letter to the Vice President of MBNA, to which i had replies apologising , didn't stop the calls until i changed my number.

I guess that isn't an easy option for you at the moment? Even so, a letter to the top wouldn't hurt!

 

Wait til you either get a reply to the CCAs (if you do) and then complain if required to Trading Standards. You may get their backing if you are lucky.

 

I'll hunt out the MBNA Assistant Vice President replies and what i wrote and post them here as they may be of some help! D

[davey77]

After i complained about the number of calls i received this:

 

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/VICEPRESmbna1.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/VICEPRESmbna2.jpg

 

My reply was:

 

"Thank you for the detailed and personal letter of the 8th of January regarding the response to my concerns - (signed Stuart Johnson: Assistant Vice President.)

 

I certainly accept the apology for the distress caused by the constant phone calls by GVI although I cannot say whether the calls in question have diminished or increased as i have since changed my phone number (ex-directory) and find that action has brought me great relief and lessened the stress i felt under at the time as I no longer experience a sickening feeling every time the phone rings.

 

I should like to bring to your attention of that which you may be unaware in the tactics employed by GVI are not as you put it “To ensure customers are contacted by telephone in a timely manner” or to “keep me updated” but are designed and carried out in such a fashion as to harass, intimidate and wear down an individual. How someone’s financial status can change several times a day or from 8am by 9.32am onwards on the same day is beyond comprehension. An example:

 

8.47am (With accent) “Hello Mr x, you have not paid your bill. Can you pay now? Can you get a friend to pay? Your credit rating will affected for up to 16 years. Can you pay by the end of the month? Can you take out a loan to pay? How do you expect to pay your bill?”

 

9.32am “Hello Mr x, you have not paid your bill. Can you pay now? Can you get a friend to pay? Your credit rating will affected for up to 16 years. Can you pay by the end of the month? Can you take out a loan to pay? How do you expect to pay your bill?”

 

12.26pm “As above”

13.15pm “As above”

15.29pm “As above”

19.15pm “As above”

19.26pm “As above”

20.40pm “As above”

 

All very polite individually but as you can imagine day in day out can start to have an effect on a person’s well-being surely. As i say i have accepted your apology and as i have changed my number it is no longer an issue that affects me personally but i bring it to your attention all the same in the hope that if there is a widespread and deliberate harassment agenda in the way GVI conducts it’s business you will review your association with such an organisation. I am sure you are all too sadly aware of the dire actions some people have taken in response to being overwhelmed by debt - and the phone calls by their creditors agents...

"

The reply was (after i had already told them i had been forced to change my phone number):

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/SeniorVicePMBNA.jpg

Edited September 26, 2008 by davey77

[citizenB]

Flippin eck davey.. great letter you sent back. It is still puzzling though, knowing your circumstances, that they still feel they can assist you to pay the account?.

[AA99]

Hey Davey! I am following with great interest!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad::mad:

 

Just thought I'd let you see what I got on email about 10 minutes ago! This is a first for me. Naturally, I haven't bothered to reply LOL

MBNA EMAIL.doc

[davey77]

yeah i know CB.. totally crazy the way these people operate!

 

ah i see AA99.. the usual "call us as we are pretending to offer you help but of course when you call us we will do no such thing and try to bully you into paying (or promising to pay) more than you can afford".

 

I wouldn't reply to them either. Never call them.. have everything in writing.

[AA99]

Flippin eck davey.. great letter you sent back. It is still puzzling though, knowing your circumstances, that they still feel they can assist you to pay the account?.

 

That's the kind of thought that makes me want to pack it all in and go bankrupt! I feel like I've now passed the defeatist attitude and prepared to fight back! They've got more money than me........... and I've beem treated unfairly:???:

[angel_1]

hiya AA99

 

did you say u pm'd me and couldnt on lexis thread>>

 

ive sent you a befriend you reply and then i think you can,,

 

pls dont give up, and dont go bankrupt, there is always a better way

 

am here for a bit

ciao maz

[lexis200]

Hi AA99

 

How's it going today? Anything happening on the MBNA front?

 

For some reason your thread went from my subscriptions, so I've missed this last page of stuff:rolleyes: but am re-subscribing now!

 

I had a nice purple enveloped letter from my friend MS a few days ago, but I'm still waiting on a response to the letter I sent him complaining about his last letter, so he can bl**dy well wait for a bit now until I can be bothered to reply:p

 

As maz says, it's got to be unbelievably dire before you go down the bankruptcy route. I was looking into it a while ago when I came across this forum. Ironically I later found out that hubbie was already a member as he'd used the site a couple of years ago for charges, but hadn't had the time to read anything else (working all hours to try and get some money in).

 

We really did reach the brink, and at the time the only thing that stopped me getting us both declared bankrupt was having to have your name in the paper (why do they do that??) - I couldn't do that to my parents.

 

Hope you're still in a fightin' mood:D Carry on with the demands for letters only, and as you're doing, ignore any 'requests' to call them!

 

Take care

 

Lexis:)

[AA99]

Basic Account Customer

 

Watch out, there are Claims Touts about!

 

Challenge your credit file?

 

Join Date: Sep 2008

Posts: 65

 

 

Re: Anonymous text message from MBNA

We nearly got divorced last week when I answered the phone to a very sweet and sexy voice asking for my husband by his Christian name only.... Who's calling? Jody..... Jody who? I can't tell you that...... Well then, Jody, I am his wife and you can't talk to my husband, good bye !