CCA Request Overdraft??

[droddis]

Can you send a CCA Request for an overdraft facility? I have read you can and you cant.

 

The overdraft was not setup with the intial current account as i was 14 when i opened the account. When i was 18 i went into the branch and requested an overdraft, which was granted. I then increased the limit several times some in person and some on the phone. Never was any paperwork provided or signed (excluding opening the account), Nor was any paperwork sent in regards to the limit, rates of interest or anything else.

 

I read somewhere they need to confirm in writing the credit limit and rate of interest to satisfy the CCA. Is this correct???

 

Thanks in advance

Edited October 30, 2008 by droddis

[42man]

Have a read of these...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/94575-cca-overdrafts-final-word-2.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/145092-bank-account-cca.html

[droddis]

Ok so from the Judgement the bank should have confirmed at the time of taking out the overdraft and in writing:

- the credit limit, if any,

- the annual rate of interest and the charges applicable from the time the agreement is concluded and the conditions under which these may be amended,

 

-the procedure for terminating the agreement;

the bank did not complete any of these. And then after 3 months of being overdrawn they should have once again confirmed these no later than seven days.

 

They also dont have to comply with a CCA Request under S78.

 

Is this right or am i way off????

 

Thanks

[droddis]

I cant send a CCA Request, so if i sent a Subject Access Request, they should provide me with ALL the information they hold about me, including all letters that they have sent previously.

 

If they send the data back without the letters regarding the rates and limits- they could not enforce the debt in court as they did not follow the determination by OFT and/or do not have a credit agreement in replacement???

 

If they then try to take me to court and produce the letter they have breached the DPA as they failed to supply me with ALL the data or they produced the document at a later date commiting fraud????

 

If they breach the DPA then i am entitled to compensation???

 

Is this correct??

 

Thanks

[42man]

Send the SAR (by recorded delivery)....see what they send back...but use this letter...

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

print but don't sign your name

[droddis]

Ok i got this response today regarding my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request.

 

Data Protection - Subject Access Request

 

We acknowledge reciept of you recent letter requesting your personal data held by the bank and payment of the £10 fee.

 

To ensure we realeasing the account information correctly we need to verify your identity

 

In order that we can proceed with your request, please return a copy of this letter containing you original signature.

 

On reciept of this, we will verify your signature and any information required to be provided under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act will be forwarded to the above address

 

If you would like transcripts of telephone conversations please provide us with dates, times, and who you spoke to (i.e. Departments or telephone numbers), so that we can locate these. Please note that not every conversaition is recorded.

 

If you have any queries relating to this matter please do not hesitate to contact me at the address shown above.

Do i have to sign and send it back??

Should i sign over the writing on the letter? or should i send a copy of my driving licence as the signature is so small.

 

I dont know who i spoke to the phone and when - thats there job to tell me surely??

 

Do i need to respond with anything else???

 

Thanks

[droddis]

Ok i sent a copy of my passport with the signature blanked out. and signed the document over the text.

 

I recieved a letter today containing part of the DPA request (recorded delivery, but mum signed) with the following.

 

 

 

 

Do i wait until the 04/11/2008 (DPA Request Expiry) for the other departments to respond??

 

Thanks

[42man]

Droddis...many thanks for posting this is up as it will also help others....The SAR is obviously incomplete as it doesn't include statements, copies of defaults, notcies of assignment etc etc....the clock is ticking for the rest of the information...keep us posted....

[droddis]

Ok I recieved another bit of information regarding my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). Although it is still incomplete. I Have read through it and the only mention of an overdraft is for £200 on page 5 and it says they have issued revised facility letter. So they issued a letter but dont send me copy then or now?

 

There is also NO default Notice, The statements clearly state the page numbers at the top; yet my statements start at page 5 of 34. Obv incomplete.

 

The last two entries on the statement shows a transfer of £178.71 to the account from suspense, and the balance of the account being a transfered to BBD Fincon. Does this mean they've sold the debt for £178.71?? If so where is my deed of assignment please.

 

There is no application form - and nothing with my signature.

 

The letter with the request says "Any discolsures of you personal data would only have been made in accordance with the terms and conditions agreed". What terms and conditions did i agree, urrm none. I asked them for ALL my information they hold under the Data Protection Act.

 

They sent the information Special Delivery this time. NatWest are pushing the boat out or trying to get a signature.

 

I will post the SAR up in the next thread for reference, in case it does help anyone. I am not including the statements (i'm sure everyone knows what they're like and i really dont want to scan 29 pages.)

 

What is my next action??? Do i wait for the deadline of the 4/11/2008 - Not really too long, Nasty West are cutting it fine.

 

Thanks For the Help Everyone

[droddis]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[droddis]

 

[42man]

No copies of default notices ?

No copies of letter with details of overdraft ?

[droddis]

Nope thats everything they've sent to date.

 

Theres a lot of information missing.

 

Lets see if they provide it by the deadline or i think its time to bring in the Information Comminsioner Office.

 

We'll Soon find out only 5 days to go to judgement.

 

Thanks

[droddis]

Ok, so the deadline was today, what is my next step.

 

Do i write to natwest and ask them to confirm this ALL the information they have on file. If they then confirm it is all the information then they have, they have admitted they havent followed the correct protocol. If they say this isnt all the information then they have breached the data protection act, by not providing the data within 40 days.

 

Either way they arent complying with the law, but then they seem to think their above it.

 

Any advice??

[42man]

Entitle the letter - LETTER BEFORE ACTION and give them 14 days to reply or if you do not hear back, you will start legal proceedings where you will claim costs and compensation and damages

 

Have alook at these too.. - http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/taking_a_case_to_court.pdf

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

[droddis]

Ok so i sent the following:

 

Thank you for your response dated xx/xx/xx, I am in receipt of the documents that you have supplied in response to my Data Protection Act request.

 

I would be grateful if you could confirm this ALL the data that National Westminster hold in relation to my account. As I believe that the disclosure of personal information is incomplete, in that at least the following documents are missing.

 

1) The list of transactions and charges begin from page 5, and are therefore incomplete

 

2) You have not including any letters, application forms, etc.

 

3) There is no deed of assignment if the debt has been passed on.

 

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing.

 

Accordingly, I have to tell you that you have not yet complied with your obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998.

The time for compliance with my request has now expired, and as such I require you to comply fully with my Subject Access Request within 7 days. If you believe you have sent out all information then could please confirm this in writing.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

and the repsonses as follows:

 

 

 

I love the response "It is not our practise to provide further copies of standard documents that you would have recieved as part of our normal course of business".

 

So why did you send me my statements i already had those. So they are admitting they hold information about me but i cant have it. I didnt entitle this one LBA but i think i have no option - or is Natwests personal policies allowed to override english law - i wish i could.

 

What do you think my next step is - to contact the ICO or LBA then court.

The deadline has passed over a week now.

 

Any advice would be greatly apreicated.

 

Thanks

[42man]

Interesting.....no default notices....!! I am not sure on this aspect, as you have specifically asked them, and they have said "It is not our practice to provide futher copies of standard documents that you would have received as part of our normal course of business" my feeling is that this is a cop out....if it got to a court room, how can they prove you received it ? how can they prove that they sent it ?

 

I'd like some other caggers to contribute to this if possible....

 

As non production of a default sits like this on a court defence.

 

DEFAULT NOTICE

The Need for a Default notice

• Notwithstanding the above, it is also drawn to the courts attention that no default notice required by s87 (1) Consumer Credit act 1974 has been attached to the petition.
  

• It is denied that any Default Notice in the prescribed format was ever received and the Defendant puts the Claimant to strict proof that said document in the prescribed format was delivered to the defendant
  

• Notwithstanding the above points, I put the claimant to strict proof that any default notice sent to me was valid. I note that to be valid, a default notice needs to be accurate in terms of both the scope and nature of breach and include an accurate figure required to remedy any such breach. The prescribed format for such document is laid down in Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) and Amendment regulations the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) (Amendment) Regulations 2004 (SI 2004/3237)
  

• Service of a default notice is a statutory requirement as laid out in sections 87,88 and 89 Consumer Credit Act 1974. Section 87 makes it clear that a default notice must be served before a creditor can seek to terminate the agreement or demand repayment of sums due to a breach of the agreement. therefore without a valid default notice, I suggest the claimants case falls flat and cannot proceed and to do so is clearly contrary to the Consumer Credit Act 1974
  

• Failure of a default notice to be accurate not only invalidates the default notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co - [2001] GCCR 2255) but is a unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the court enforcing any alleged debt, but give me a counter claim for damages Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119
  

[42man]

Did you have an authorised overdraft ?

[droddis]

NatWest seem to like digging a hole. I spoke to the information comminsioners office and they said they should provide letters, but the banks do try to get out on the fact that its an automated letter. (cop out)

 

I'm really stuck now. Do you think it would get a better response in the Data protection forum other than debt legal issues??? is it possible to move a thread??

 

As the account is still not "settled" could they officially serve me with a default notice now??

 

Thanks

Edited November 21, 2008 by droddis

[droddis]

Yes I had an arranged overdraft of £1200 which i arranged over the phone from ibiza. But no letters of facility.

 

Am i right in the fact if the bank do not comply to the OFT waiver by sending a letter of facility - then it has to be covered by the Consumer Credit Act and should have a regulated agreement.

 

Thanks

[42man]

Have a read here - (beacuse they should have sent you a copy of their letter for your overdraft too - although again it would seem like they are getting out of doing this too !!)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/145092-bank-account-cca.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/94575-cca-overdrafts-final-word-2.html

[droddis]

So its kind of an a blank area - of what happens if the banks do not provide a letter of facility?? Do you think i should contact OFT and see what there stance is on it???

[42man]

Interesting one here about defaults Droddis - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/145452-stayingcalm-abbey-no-cca-8.html#post1713968

[droddis]

ok i'm going to send this off on monday:

 

Once again thank you for you response dated xx/xx/xx, although I still find the response unsatisfactory. You duty under the data protection act requires you to provide ALL personal information held.

 

After speaking with the Information commissioner’s office they have confirmed that you are required to provide me with copies of letters and copies off all previous correspondence to comply with the Data Protection Act. It is not satisfactory to say “it is not our policy.”

 

If you still maintain that you have provided all the information you hold, and that you will not provide copies of all correspondence then I will have no further option but to apply to the county court for an order to enforce compliance. This may result in additional cost to yourself and compensation at the discretion of the court.

 

I look forward to hearing your response within the next seven days.

What do you think???

[42man]

Sounds good....