G E Money and Secret Commissions

[on*the*case]

Hi beachcomber60

 

The PPP premium will be Pinnacle Insurance and will be PPI payment protection insurance. If you haven't already, start the process for claiming that back.

 

Good Luck

[beachcomber60]

Hi beachcomber60

 

The PPP premium will be Pinnacle Insurance and will be PPI payment protection insurance. If you haven't already, start the process for claiming that back.

 

Good Luck

 

Thanks for your reply, already started reclaim for ppi, GE dont want to know (state they weren't responsible- its the glazing company), Glazing company said its not them & the FOS have said neither were regulated at the time so they cant help.

 

Hence the reason for reading this secret commission thread (recommended by a fellow cagger).

 

Beachy

[michellej]

well if secret commission , then after all I have read over the 30 + hours I have put in , says to me you can make agreement void , ,.. this means you would owe what you first borrowed minus any monies you have paid connected to this agreement , the ppi would come out the difference you would be owed from lenders ,.. I would take the secret commissions road myself , seems a lot less hassle in the longterm , if commission is paid without your knowledge the agreement classes as vid as commission is seen as a bride , so you can claim all monies on these grounds ,.. good luck and hope you get more then owed

[beachcomber60]

well if secret commission , then after all I have read over the 30 + hours I have put in , says to me you can make agreement void , ,.. this means you would owe what you first borrowed minus any monies you have paid connected to this agreement , the ppi would come out the difference you would be owed from lenders ,.. I would take the secret commissions road myself , seems a lot less hassle in the longterm , if commission is paid without your knowledge the agreement classes as vid as commission is seen as a bride , so you can claim all monies on these grounds ,.. good luck and hope you get more then owed

 

Thank you so much for your advice & help, quickly working out figures its even stevens, having never had a court case before I need to try and build a defence around these commissions.

 

GE were quick to sell it to Link when it was disputed over ppi so hopefully with a lot of reading its pay back time.

 

Also believe its a S18 agreement because of the ppi (which was added to the balance before interest).

 

Beachy

[michellej]

well if its even stevens , then at least can not blackmail you into demanding paying the outstanding lump sum borrowed ,.. not forgeting the inerest you could claim on monies paid ,... so could end up owing you money ,..

[beachcomber60]

well if its even stevens , then at least can not blackmail you into demanding paying the outstanding lump sum borrowed ,.. not forgeting the inerest you could claim on monies paid ,... so could end up owing you money ,..

 

Mornin' Michellej,

 

Double checked my figures last night & I was 12 months out on what we've already paid - actually paid back about £1,500 more then we borrowed.

 

Not sure how this will pan out as its been sold to Link & its them who's issued court claim against us.

 

Regards

 

Beachy

[michellej]

Morning ,... think you are still laughing regardless who you took loan out with ,.. as if agreement in place ith old lenders then this would be passed on when debt sold ,.. then if not and not in place , then they is another side of the coin,... our loan was taken out with first national and sold to G E Money ,.. who happen to be one of the same , just a new name (probably only done to throw honest people like us off they trails ,.. )

I am guessing when I say this , chances are once new company takes over new papers & doc's are sent out hoping to cover previous tracks with a new signature in place ,.. these companies are very clever in the way they play they little games ,.. I would request the underwritting sheet from the first company also ,.. (only costs a registered letter )

it all can look a little difficult once other companies involved ,. or this is what we are made to believe or think ,... but really you were paying last company per month so its upto them to provide the agreement ,.. as surely these companies would not buy debt without agreements in place ,.. as this would be looked upon as unsecured debt ,.. contact the last cllectors of this loan ,.. surely they will do all the running to find an agreement once the ball is rolling with legal proceedings ,.. once you get your head round all the obsticles in your way ,.. pretty easy with help off this forum , letters off and sit back , again good luck best wishes

Edited December 5, 2009 by michellej

[beachcomber60]

Thanks Michelle,

 

Brightened my weekend a treat, tried clicking your scales but as I'm using my phone at the moment it wont let me, will do as soon as I get home.

 

Strangely enough our home improvement loan started with First National who then became part of GE Money.

 

I have a copy of the agreement so dont have to chase that one, absolutely no mention of commissions within the T&C's - I'd like to think that it is Link I go after, they bought the debt & went straight to court, they deserve a good kicking

 

Thanks again

 

Beachy

[iconoclash]

Hi - re GE and FirstNational - I found them to be virtually one and the same, both listed at companies house with address in Harrow and I think the co reg nbr the same too. ? Have had two years worth of letters from GE and they say my claim against them is statute barred as its 7 yrs - however - concealment makes any statute barred term void and since I found a PPI in my paperwork and who knows what else there is yet to find I still think I have a case to take them to court. They failed to send an agreement also and say that they no longer have the docs and that this will prejudice their defence and they will move to have any claim struck out by the judge on this point. I think it is fraud if you conceal insurance and isnt there something about previous mortgage products and general insurance coming under the FOS retrospestively? or I suppose PPI is not general is it - hmmm -dont know, will have to get some info together and get this claim into court soon. will keep u posted.

[beachcomber60]

Hi Campari2,

 

A very interesting read, yes - although our agreement is First National underneath their name & logo is, in brackets, a GE Money Company.

 

Regarding PPI, the glazing companies salesman told me I had to have ppi in order to get finance approved even though I expressly informed him I was self employed, to which he replied all the more reason to have ppi as they probably wouldnt approve the loan otherwise, there are other issues such as telling us that both of us wold be covered etc etc.

 

GE wont entertain mis selling and said its the glazing company who have stated that they no longer sell ppi on behalf of GE. As I started giving GE a hard time they quickly sold the debt to Link who immediately issued a court claim against me (state of play at the moment is that we've filed an embaressed defence). We issued Link with a CPR & that is when we found out that commissions were paid. Although absolutely petrified at receiving a court claim from Link ( with their reputation) things seem to be stacking up nicely against them

 

I can update about the FOS, I spoke to them concerning ppi, although GE & the glazing company weren't regulated at the time the insurance provider (Pinnacle) was and the FOS WILL take on board our complaint as they would be interested in finding out why a regulated company was allowing two unregulated companies to sell their insurance products - filing our complaint on Monday.

 

Beachy

[on*the*case]

.........

Regarding PPI, the glazing companies salesman told me I had to have ppi in order to get finance approved even though I expressly informed him I was self employed, to which he replied all the more reason to have ppi as they probably wouldnt approve the loan otherwise, there are other issues such as telling us that both of us would be covered etc etc.

........

 

Absolutely and without any doubt the PPI was miss sold.

 

• The glazing salesman (who was acting as the Agent of the Lender & the Insurance Co) expressly said the loan was conditional on the PPI.
  
• The PPI was misrepresented as being essential to your loan status, being self employed.
  
• Misrepresented in that joint cover offered.
  

A refund of the full premium plus all interest charged on that element.

 

Advise Link of the facts (by recorded delivery) and suggest most strongly that they agree an adjournment until this is settled, and that if they refuse an adjournment and one is subsequently granted by the court, you will press for costs.

[beachcomber60]

Thanks on*the*case,

 

Apart from the ppi issue, as it was front loaded to the loan & subject to interest throughout the loan period (cover was only 5years) I am sure that it should have been a S18 multi agreement (I'm still learning so not sure), now we've found out about the secret commissions I'd like to explore that avenue.

 

Not quite sure how we stand with all this with regard Link now owning the debt?

 

Regards

 

Beachy

[on*the*case]

Can't help with the S18, but a search on here will probably turn up the answer.

 

Link purchased your contract, the benefit and the obligations. They may try and claim otherwise of course. In practice no doubt the purchase contract has some form of indemnity with GE, but thats not your concern.

So court action is all Link.

PPI is Link GE & Pinnacle through FOS

[michellej]

Hi all think I can prove my broker went straight to First national for my secured loan,.. after looking through my papers earlier on , noticed that abbey who I had my original mortgage with , had a restriction in place regarding others registering second charges on the property ,.. I really think Ocean Finance spotted this restriction on land search ,.. and decided there and then that they would need to use an abbey friendly bank ,.. abbey did not oppose this at all as they sister company ,... Ocean will of known this if I can suss it out ,.. so decided to contact first national to secure the loan , when in reality thought brokers were paid to find the best deal for client?,.. not who they think success will be more likely with ,.. would this throw the agreement in a different light ,? and at the time of loan abbey would of seen us struggling with monthly payments (hence the loan ) ,.. surely something is a miss , and thats without the secret commissions I believe Ocean recieved ,.. Should I write off to Ocean Finance to request copies of all the available offers to me plus key facts? ,.. as if these can not be produced this must prove that they minds were made up who I would be getting the loan with , regardless of secret commissions ,.. is this a point to attack ? any thoughts greatly appreciated , thanks all best wishes

Edited December 9, 2009 by michellej

[michellej]

so any thoughts on the above anyone???????

[dillon21]

Just comem across this thread we have a mortgage with ge money i think it was done through a broker would we have also oaid 2 commisions

[michellej]

Yes you will have a broker as G E Money work this way ,.. and chances are they will of give your broker a commission ,.. just request the underwriters sheet to agreement , and then you will know, good luck best wishes

[Pacluc]

Hi Michelle...I used to be a finance broker 20 years ago....there were no commisions from lenders to brokers in those days, so our information was impartial. If as you say, the Abbey would not give permission for any other second charge lender...did the broker have a choice where he placed your loan?

[michellej]

Good point , but then this also says that he breached his duty , as he was paid a fee to find the best deal for us ,.. not what deal would be most successful in gaining a commission ,.. and the restriction did not say it would not give permission , but permission needed ,.. so broker would of thought yeah , lets use First National , to use another lender would it not be the case to seek permission as better deal for borrower? ,.. is that not how a broker works , is it not the way to talk with client (who is paying you £2500) and explain the options ? or just go ahead regardless of other options as they knew abbey would favour first national getting a second charge ,.. does not sound right to me ,.. and you would think fee would be discounted as no work involved really then searching other deals ,.. if had no option in choices ,.. nore definately not right

[Pacluc]

I guess those questions can only be answered by the broker. From memory, every applicant's details were different, and it was therefore the broker's job to know the criteria of the lenders, and find the best one for his customer as you rightly say. Obviously the choice of available lenders becomes progressively fewer as the credit worthiness of the applicant decreases. Dont misunderstand me, I am not defending your broker, 2.5k seems like money for old rope to me...nice work if you can get it ! But I feel it may now be hard for you to establish that First National was not the only choice.

The reasonableness of the broker's fee seems questionable to me!

[michellej]

Hi Pacluc ,.. thanks for your thoughts on this ,.. and if it is only the broker who can answer the questions then surely this would never see the insides of a court room ,.. should the broker of pointed this out and advised as such , then maybe I could of talked with my main lender , and why was main lender never given a thought? as surely they could of increased the mortgage amount as only £48k owed on house , value was £175k ,.. so would it not been an option for my broker to explore as surely that would of been ideal for me ,.. but no as main high street brances do not pay as much commission to brokers ,.. £250 introduction fee, a lot different to what first national give out in commission ,.. I think the broker was not limitd at all , he knew his job and went straight to first national regardless of other deals or options ,.. the brokers were ocean finance so know the game very well ,.. just a shame they do not play by the rules , and then expect us to just hand the keys back when things go wrong , forget the years of been a customer , letskick them out the house , just before xmas , no not right and will explore all avenues and have some good points on quite a few aspects of this loan ,.. thanks for all the comments , would be nice to hear other thoughts as still no further forward in my way of thinking , think I have a point , but come on pick holes in it if you have to ,.. best wishes & thoughts

[frettful38]

I think the broker and the lender are both equally responsible for any commission received or paid out. It would seem better to sue the lender as they would have more money than the broker.

The deal is pre arranged between both parties and the interest of the borrower is not a priority. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

A lot of brokers are self-employed but Ocean Finance are not self-employed and can afford to pay back what they should never have received. The borrower pays the broker a fee for arranging a loan so why the hell do they want or receive commission on top. Pure and utter greed and if any borrower finds any evidence that a deal has been done and commission has been paid on top without their knowledge then I think they should explore every avenue they can to try and investigate and see where they legally stand.

[Pacluc]

Looking at the figures you quoted in your last post, it seems that although you obviously had some problems, you certainly had plenty of equity. Again, from my experience as a broker 20 years back, I was not over keen on second charge lending, as it tended to be rather expensive. People looking for this type of financing were often in a little bother, so a large increase in monthly outgoings was really the last thing they needed. My personnal approach would be to explore refinancing with the existing first charge lender first (as you suggested), as this would most likely be the simplest and cheapest administratively, second choice would probably be a remortgage, because although there are legal costs, the monthly payments would most likely be less than the existing mortgage plus a loan. In my day, there were all kinds of status free lenders around if you had a good clump of equity, and as you took your loan in 05 when property was still booming, I wouldn't mind betting it was the same then. It's the same problem though...how to establish a better deal was actually available and therefore build a case around mis-advice.

[michellej]

yes could not agree more ,.. an have requested the underwriters sheet , to see the secret commission paid , and will be looking to void the agreement , as after 7 years and paying off £22k, still owe £44k on a £31k loan ,.. unreal and unfair conditions ,.. I believe a commission paid and hope to void the agreement and give back what I owe ,.. minus the amount I have paid over the 7 years , and hopefully with interest claimed over this period (as they should not have had this money and collect interest on it ) then I will claim interest on the amount I have paid , which hopefully brings the figure owed down further ,.. its better then been sat in debt for £44k to these sharks

[Pacluc]

I would say, that you only need to prove that 1 or 2 lenders could have provided a better deal than the one you ended up with. This would surely be the case/proof you need that your broker chose the route most beneficial to him....thinking about it, the task doesn't seem that daunting.

What state was your mortgage account at the time of taking the loan?