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    • Few tweaks as the run order was completely messed up and the main point of your defence (reconstituted agreement) pushed to the bottom of the statement.   I, XXXXXX, being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim and further to my set aside application dated 1 November 2022. 1.The claimants witness statement confirms that it mostly relies on hearsay evidence as confirmed by the drafts in person in the opening paragraph. It is my understanding they must serve notice to any hearsay evidence pursuant to CPR 33.2(1)(B) (notice of intention to rely on hearsay evidence) and Section 2 (1) (A) of the Civil Evidence Act. 2.  I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already wrote off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimants witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. 3. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights.  This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information).  The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 4.  I became aware of original Judgement following a routine credit check on or around 14th September 2020. 5. The alleged letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 was served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018, no effort was made to ascertain my correct address.  I have attached a copy of my tenancy agreement which is marked ‘Appendix 1’ and shows I was residing at a difference address as of 11 December 2018 and was therefore not at the service address at the time the proceedings were served.  I have also attached an email from my solicitors to the Claimants solicitors dated 14 July 2022 which was sent to them requesting that they disclose the trace of evidence they utilised prior to issuing the proceedings against me.  This is marked ‘Appendix 2’. The claimants solicitors did not provide me with these documents. 6. Under The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 a Debt Buyer must undertake all reasonable enquiries to ensure the correct address of a debtor, this can be as simple as a credit file search. The Claimant failed to carry out such basic checks. Subsequently all letters prior to and including ,The Pre action Protocol letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 and the claim form dated 14th February 2020 were all served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018. 7. Upon the discovery of the Judgement debt, I made immediate contact with the Court and the Claimant Solicitors, putting them on notice that I was making investigations in relation to the Judgement debt as it was not familiar to me.  I asked them to provide me with a copy of the original loan agreement but this was not provided to me.   The correspondence to the Claimant Solicitor's is attached and marked ‘Appendix 3’ 8. On (insert date) I successfully made application to set a side the judgment. The claim proceeded to allocation, 9. The claimant failed to comply with the additional directions ordered by District Judge Davis on the 2 February 2024 'The Claim shall be automatically struck out at 4pm on 3 April 2024 unless the Claimant delivers to the Court and to the Defendant the following documents.' None of these documents were received by the court nor the defendant by that date. (insert date you did receive the documents) I then sent a Data Subject Access Request to Barclays but no agreement was provided. Details the timeline of communication between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 4’and the copies of correspondence between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 5’. Remove irrelevant 10.The claimant relies upon and has exhibited a reconstituted version of the alleged agreement. It is again denied that I have ever entered into an agreement with Barclaycard on or around 2000.  It is admitted that I did hold other credit agreements with other creditors and as such should this be a debt that was assigned to Barclaycard from another brand therefore the reconstituted agreement disclosed is invalid being pre April 2007 and not legally enforceable pursuant to HHJ Judge Waksman in Carey v HSBC 2009 EWHC3417.  Details of this are attached and marked ‘Appendix 6’. The original credit agreement must be provided along with any reconstituted version on a modified credit agreement and must contain the names and address of debtor and creditor, agreement number and cancelation clause. 11. Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose a true executed legible agreement on which its claim relies upon and not mislead the court. 12. It is denied I have ever received a default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.The claimant is put to strict proof to evidence from the original creditors internal document software the trigger of said notice.  13.   As per CPR 1.4(2)(a) the court encourages parties to cooperate with each other in the conduct of proceedings in order to try and save time and costs for the parties and to also save the time and resources of the court however, despite vast attempts at mediation the claimants have been most unreasonable and have remained unwilling to mediate. 14. Until such time the claimant can comply and disclose a true executed copy of the original assigned agreement they refer to within the particulars of this claim they are not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement pursuant to section 78.6 (a) of the Credit Consumer Act 1974. I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.  I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. Signed                 ………………………………………………….. Name                  XXXX Date                     30 April 2024   Run 3 copies Court /Claimants Sol/File
    • As one of you mentioned above I've been in a mess for nearly 20 years now and I'm ready to sort my credit report out now - the main reason I got into second round of debt is my kids being unwell and the state considering them not unwell enough for extra help so despite my son being in hospital for 3 months in one year we got extra zero help and I eventually lost my job and got into debt to just so I can be تا my sons hospital bed at his time of need - my life basically fell apart and all these debts got me again 
    • Gosh mate I've woke up this morning with half the worry I had last night when going to sleep!.  I can't believe how much this forum has helped me over the years and I don't  have the words to explain the gratitude I feel towards you guys -  Now that I've slept on it I feel ready to reject this company and my plan is to make them an offer to accept payments to date as full and final settlement - I will I think write them a letter once my review is completed or maybe just send it now whilst they are reviewing explaining my kids are unwell for which reason I'm struggling to survive and if I can politely request for them to accept payment to date as a full and final - I'll mention I don't have any cash or anyone to borrow from to offer a full or even part amount of the remaining balance of the iva and therfore am unable to make a offer of payment.   If they agree to at least even put my offer to the creditors then I feel it's better I hang in there and that way I won't have to deal with any possibilities of more defaults and ccjs    Right now the only adverse effects on my credit report are the iva that is now 3 years old and 2 Ccj one coming of this July and one thus October.    But I am worried new action will begin and new defaults and Ccj may start to appear because I've paying into an agreement im under the impression the 6 year rules starts again so yes I have lost of mixed feelings about this but I'm not going to lie you guys have put some life back into my breath this week as for the last 3 years I've felt caged like an animal and this morning I feel freer I can't explain how much but certainly my soul feel lighter today thanks to yin because I'm now viewing this review totally different to I do yesterday thanks to you guys 
    • Court name UNKNOWN Case number ********** Amount N/A Confirmed by Insolvency Service Date issued May 2021 Type Voluntary Arrangement Notes If you have questions about voluntary arrangements you should speak to the Insolvency Service.     I started this in 2021. So it's been about 3 years I've been paying. 
    • Thanks @lookinforinfo@Nicky Boyi sent across the agreement earlier in this thread. No mention of financial reward to the MA. But, I wouldn't be surprised if it was done on the sly. As I said earlier, the owner of OPS is a convicted criminal, with a very shady reputation around these parts.
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G E Money and Secret Commissions


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Hi,

 

Just to let you know that I am about to issue 2 Claims against GE Money (then Ocwen) for 2 secured loans taken out on our house in 1999/2000. These claims are possible because, after a professional audit, it was clear that we paid both a stated commission and secret commission on each loan. On one loan the broker's disclosed commission was £2,300 and the undisclosed commission was £4,500 - on a loan of approx £40,000. Both loans were redemned when we sold the house.

 

I am claiming all associated costs of the loans, in fact, everything except the capital sum, and eight/nine years interest. This gives claims of approximately £25,000 and £30,000.

 

As per the Hurstanger case, the undisclosed commissions are a breach of fiduciary duty and a form of bribe. Am I one of this first to do this?

 

Frustrated.

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mortgage-companies/151573-sub-prime-mortgages-loans.html

 

 

As a matter of interest, on what grounds do you feel you have to claim all the interest back as a result of this? can you explain your line of thinking and what backs it up at all because I know a number of people who have requested info from brokers.

 

I'm glad this is coming out into the open, going to be a few brokers with sticky nick knocks after they start seeing people onto this .

 

Sarah

Edited by andrew1
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Okay. About me: just finished Law Degree (2:1) at Birkbeck in London. Only reason to do this was a feeling of lack of power and irritation. Buffeted by the institutional contempt of financial institutions. Knowledge is power and I really do get quite irritated. Collected monies taken from my accounts by NatWest a few years ago, etc..

 

In the case of G E Money/Ocwen the grounds are as follows: Our audits show two separate commissions to the broker on each loan; one disclosed and one not disclosed. The courts will take their lead from the Hurstanger case. The defendants in Hurstanger were not allowed redress because it was not a "true secret commission case", ie. their documentation stated that the broker "might be paid" a commission and that was enough to negate secrecy. In addition, even if there is no such statement, the customer should ask themselves what the broker is living on if he does not receive commission, and should be responsible enough to ask about commission.

 

However, in our case, the documentation shows quite clearly a commission of £2,500 to the broker. Being aware of this disclosed commission we would be entitled to believe that this was the brokers only return and we entered into the contract in that belief. The exposure of the undisclosed commission (much larger) would, reading the judge's explanation in Hurstanger make ours a true secret commission case. The remedies, as described in H, are "the amount of the bribe or for damages for fraud where he can recover the amount of any actual loss sustained by entering into the transaction in respect of the bribe given".

 

We are going for damages for fraud; the actual loss sustained includes any amount except the capital amount. So all interest, penalties, disclosed broker fee, undisclosed broker fee, legal fees, settlement charge, admin charges, completion costs, etc. These amounts are our financial loss caused by entering into a fraudulent contract.

 

Frustrated

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In addition, the court will ask, would we have entered into the contract for a £40,000 loan knowing the real total commission was approximately £6,500? A sum which does not even take into account the interest and fees of the lender. And were there more favourable loan arrangements that we could have entered into? And did our broker not reveal these other loan arrangements to us in a clear breach of his fiduciary duty because the return to him was greater if we signed up to the G E Money/Ocwen loans?

 

If the secret commission is established, the broker is in breach of his fiduciary duty and the lender is jointly liable. The courts have defined the way forward, but, as yet, I don't think that a provable case of secret commission has allowed the courts to follow through on the judgement given by Tuckey LJ in Hurstanger.

 

Frustrated

 

Frustrated

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  • 4 months later...

Hi frustrated, strangely I did a law degree for the same reasons and got a 2:1 as well, but with the OU as I work full time. I am interested in your claim as we had a 40k loan from GE. We have already claimed back all the charges and have a 2.5k ERC claim on standby. As ours was also through a broker I will have to do some more research. Do let us know how you are doing with this one.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Hi frustrated, strangely I did a law degree for the same reasons and got a 2:1 as well, but with the OU as I work full time. I am interested in your claim as we had a 40k loan from GE. We have already claimed back all the charges and have a 2.5k ERC claim on standby. As ours was also through a broker I will have to do some more research. Do let us know how you are doing with this one.

 

Don't want to digress from the thread, but which charges did you get back GL and on what basis? Had a GE Loan too, bags of charges...be interested to know.

 

Just to keep thread on track...http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/170647-secret-commisions.html :D

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In the case we are currently running against GE for undisclosed commissions, at the preliminary hearing the judge asked GE's solicitors (Wragge & Co) whether GE had received any other similar claims and they stated they had not. I'd be very interested to hear if anyone has made a similar claim as I'm sure the judge will not be too pleased if GE have misled him!

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All the £40 charges for late payment/failed dd's and the interest we had paid on them. GE very kindly showed this separately on our statements. Was almost £2k. They tried to make me agree to keep my mouth shut - I refused;).

 

Back on track - how does one find out about these commissions?

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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Very interesting, Goldlady! What type of loan was it? Secured or unsecured? Was it your main mortgage or an additional loan?

 

Re finding out about the commissions, they generally will not tell you in the first instance however the loan was arranged through a credit broker rather than directly with the lender then almost invariably a commission will have been paid (in addition to any fee the broker charged you directly). If you start legal proceedings, at that point they will disclose the amount of commission paid.

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Secured loan in addition to mortgage. Decided to go for them after they refused to help AT ALL when we got into difficulties and then tried to repossess just before Christmas two years ago. Paid them off by refinancing with 1st mortgage lender then issued court claim:p

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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All the £40 charges for late payment/failed dd's and the interest we had paid on them. GE very kindly showed this separately on our statements. Was almost £2k. They tried to make me agree to keep my mouth shut - I refused;).

 

Back on track - how does one find out about these commissions?

 

I actually wrote to my broker and asked him outright. Did he or did he not receive an additional fee/payment from the lender as well as the one I paid him .. First attempt I received a politicians answer "well the question you should be asking is this" and promptly veering completely off track, so a more direct manner of questioning followed :D

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OH has just reminded me that we were supposed to pay the broker a fee but we refused on the basis that they would have had their commission from GE (or IGroup as it was then). We had not been told we would have to pay the broker and they backed down fairly quickly when we put up a fight as obviously someone had forgotten to deduct it from the loan drawdown:D. So I guess we can't really argue that one.

BANK CHARGES

Nat West Bus Acct £1750 reclaim - WON

 

LTSB Bus Acct £1650 charges w/o against o/s balance - WON

 

Halifax Pers Acct £1650 charges taken from benefits - WON

 

Others

 

GE Money sec loan - £1900 in charges - settlement agreed

GE Money sec loan - ERC of £2.5K valid for 15 years - on standby

FirstPlus - missold PPI of £20K for friends - WON

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OH has just reminded me that we were supposed to pay the broker a fee but we refused on the basis that they would have had their commission from GE (or IGroup as it was then). We had not been told we would have to pay the broker and they backed down fairly quickly when we put up a fight as obviously someone had forgotten to deduct it from the loan drawdown:D. So I guess we can't really argue that one.

 

The whole idea of establishing whether a secret commission has been paid is to ensure you were given totally unbiased advice. If they took a fee from the lender they were not unbiased. End of.

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I've posted this on the secret commissions thread but am very interested to know how others are proceeding. A friend is seeing a solicitor tomorrow. She got nothing from the broker except his business card - no other paperwork whatsoever. The lender didn't even send her a copy of the mortgage agreement. They are supposed to give the Information Disclosure Document from the outset detailing the charges for their service and a Key Facts Illustration about the loan. She was offered one loan and one loan only, no other companies or loans were mentioned and her credit rating is good - they are supposed to be a whole of market broker. He asked her for a fee just before everything was completed - it was too late then to turn back - and the broker's commission was tucked away on the back of page 10 of the loan offer - she never even noticed it. She was not asked for her informed consent to the brokers commission. In addition, the negotiations were held in her employers house (where she works) with her employer and the vendor present! Ouch! Don't know how she will get on but we will know more tomorrow.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I wonder how everyone above have got on with this secret commission case, I have started my own thread but does not seem to be that much known on this site about it, have you all given up or in the middle of reclaiming.

 

Please post up, thanks

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Hi,

 

My claim against G E Money Home Lending for two old Ocwen Loans (secret commission, erc) comes up in court next week for a directions hearing.

 

GE have two preliminary defences: They are not the defendants, Ocwen are (now dormant, bought by Igroup, which is part of G E Money).

and the claim is limitation barred.

 

So I am going to ask that Ocwen and Igroup are joined as defendants, then I have to wait another 28 days for their defence.

 

Wragge are their solicitors. Horrible.

 

Frustrated

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Hi,

 

My claim against G E Money Home Lending for two old Ocwen Loans (secret commission, erc) comes up in court next week for a directions hearing.

 

GE have two preliminary defences: They are not the defendants, Ocwen are (now dormant, bought by Igroup, which is part of G E Money).

and the claim is limitation barred.

 

So I am going to ask that Ocwen and Igroup are joined as defendants, then I have to wait another 28 days for their defence.

 

Wragge are their solicitors. Horrible.

 

Frustrated

 

Yes, GE do try this, its rather ridiculous, I understand you can just apply to amend your paperwork via the court to say they you are claiming against the co known as XXX trading as XXX and provide all the letterheads etc that have caused you to think they are called one thing and not another.

 

good luck (just ASK them outright and copy it to the Court) who are they!!??

'rise like lions after slumber, in unvanquishable number, shake your chains to the earth like dew, which in sleep had fall'n on you, ye are many, they are few.' Percy Byshse Shelly 1819

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IGROUP LIMITED Number 03389478

 

Previous Name(s)

Changed : 27/03/2000 Ocwen Uk Limited

Changed : 15/04/1998 City Mortgage Receivables 7 Plc

 

Web Address GEMONEY.CO.UK Incorporation Date 16/06/1997

 

 

Kinda says it all really for a Judge...hope it helps...this comes from a Creditcheck/company info information site..good luck

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thanks, they tried the old name switheroo with me on my charges claim, but still got them all back!

 

still in litigation with this lot!

'rise like lions after slumber, in unvanquishable number, shake your chains to the earth like dew, which in sleep had fall'n on you, ye are many, they are few.' Percy Byshse Shelly 1819

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I have also a secret commission claim, I paid a fee of £339 I know its not much, but still it was without my knowledge or consent. Blemain/Finance paid this fee to our broker Ocean/Finance.

 

I only found this info out when I SAR'd Blemain and the Underwriting Sheet disclosed this amount. I am still waiting for Ocean/Finance to reply to my SAR that I sent them to see what that says and if they have disclosed any fee received by B/Finance.

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About but the £339 commission. That should be detailed within section 13 of my KFI when I receive from Ocean/Finance when I receive my SAR

This is what it should read>

 

"explain to your customer in full that any fee you may charge for your services is NOT a condition of the loan. We will need your customer's request and instruction in writing for us to deduct this fee and send it to you. You may also receive a payment from us in respect of the loan, which you should advise your client of and hold conversation on file

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