Natwest LOAN CCA HELP!!!

[dacascos42]

Found out today that Natwest have transfered a payment from my current account to the loan account. Was told that as long as funds are available they can do this without notification.

 

That makes 3 payments taken whilst in default all without aurthorisation even though they are aware of the regulations and my letter suspending payments in accordance with the CCA 1974.

 

Also spoke to the Service Quality Manager regarding the Loan agreement and she told me that because they could not locate the original, her and the branch manager recreated a new one with all current terms and this was entered into the system. Once this was done that then became the loan agreement. Surely without a signiture, wrong information, higher ammounts and new paperwork this could not stand up if taken to court as it bare no reseblance to the original in any way.

 

Advice on how to start court proceedings would be grateful as my letters are falling on deaf ears.

[42man]

Absolutely right Dacascos....this could be verging on fraud !!! unexecuted agreement !!!

 

If it was me in your shoes I would open up a new bank account....

 

It might be worth sending them this too...

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**. (12+2 working days after you sent the CCA request)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

Also please note that if I suspect fraud, then I will have no hesitation in passing this on to the Crime Branch of the HM Treasury

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

BLAH

[42man]

IN FACT....just reading when you took the agreement out SEND THEM THIS...and CC it to the chief executive

 

Dear xxxx,

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxx, however I find it difficult to believe that you have mislaid such an important document as the copy of the credit agreement.

 

As I am sure you are aware; especially with the recent highlighted cases of 'lost' data, which seems to be a serious issue I was led to believe that you are legally obliged to keep copy agreements for a 6 year period. As I’m sure you are aware, this 6 year period starts from the closing of an account not the opening of one.

 

It would appear that you have failed in your obligations to comply with the various anti money laundering regulations in not keeping such documents. This, as I’m sure you are aware, is a very serious offence.

 

I now require the balance of this account to be returned to zero.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 14 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 14 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore, you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following would apply:

• You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  
• You may not add any further interest or charges to the account.
  
• You may not pass the account to any third party.
  
• You may not register any information in respect of the account with any of the credit reference agencies.
  
• You may not issue a default notice related to the account.
  

Please be aware, the CCA 1974 is very clear that a default can only be issued for breach of a valid, regulated agreement. As there is no agreement a default cannot be lawfully issued as no valid, regulated agreement has been breached.

I would ask that you review this account and respond favourably within 14 days of the date of this letter. Failure to do so will result in me reporting this matter to The Financial Crime Branch of HM Treasury and any other authorities as I see fit.

 

I look forward to your reply in due course.

 

Yours faithfully

[dacascos42]

thanks for the help, what do you think the likely outcome could be as so far everthing I have sent has been ignored.

[42man]

Send the last letter above....the original editor of the letter had his loan written off after he sent it !!!!

[dacascos42]

Will get it sent today and see what happens. In the meantime what can I do to get the money back that they have taken whilst in default?

[paulwlton]

Found out today that NatWest have transfered a payment from my current account to the loan account. Was told that as long as funds are available they can do this without notification.

 

That makes 3 payments taken whilst in default all without aurthorisation even though they are aware of the regulations and my letter suspending payments in accordance with the CCA 1974.

 

Also spoke to the Service Quality Manager regarding the Loan agreement and she told me that because they could not locate the original, her and the branch manager recreated a new one with all current terms and this was entered into the system. Once this was done that then became the loan agreement. Surely without a signiture, wrong information, higher ammounts and new paperwork this could not stand up if taken to court as it bare no reseblance to the original in any way.

 

Advice on how to start court proceedings would be grateful as my letters are falling on deaf ears.

 

I would write and ask them to put in writing what they have done.

[dacascos42]

Can anyone help me in filling out a N1 form with regards to the loan

[paulwlton]

Can anyone help me in filling out a N1 form with regards to the loan

 

It may be a case of making an application for a declaration to determine each parties rights under section 142.

[dacascos42]

How do I go about that as this is now new territory for me

[paulwlton]

How do I go about that as this is now new territory for me

 

You would need to use a N244 form and basically set out what you attend to acheive, that is a decleration that the agreement is unenforceable. Also, In addition you could include the fact that the "true copy" - conjectured creation is an abuse of the CCA.

 

But be aware an application hearing is not small claims so the no cost rule does not apply.

 

PW

[dacascos42]

can the form be downloaded and filed online or do i have to get one from the court and post it.

 

found the form just need to fill it in.

[pt2537]

An agreement can be challenged in the conventional way on a N1 claim form, this is how we do it at work

[dacascos42]

So which would be the best form to use then?

[tinkerbell20]

An agreement can be challenged in the conventional way on a N1 claim form, this is how we do it at work

 

 

Not as a Part 8?

[pt2537]

No, why?

 

its not necessary to use the part 8 procedure as part 8 is used primarily where there is likely to be little or no dispute as to facts and where a question is asked of the court

 

can you see a credit card accepting as a matter of fact their agreement is defective?

[tinkerbell20]

No but there will be no dispute between the 2 parties that there is an agreement of sorts - merely whether its enforceable or not. see the white book page 283 rule 8.1(2)(a)

[pt2537]

but there will be other matters raised in our claim which would render such claim not applicable for the part 8 procedure, we do not merely ask for the court to rule on whether the agreement is or is not properly executed, we seek further relief.

 

In any case, a claim can be brought under part 7, there is nothing to say otehr wise in the CPR or the RSC

[tinkerbell20]

Yes under Part 8 you can ask for a declaration of unenforceability due to the construction of a document or lack of.

[pt2537]

but one thing you havent thought about i would think, is the fact that the court will automatically allocate a part 8 claim to the multi track

 

See Blackstones Civil Practice Chapter13, page 133, para 13.5

 

Fantastic if you wanna leave your client open to a royal a$$ whooping and huge costs orders as well:rolleyes:

[dacascos42]

Latest news, sent head office a letter headed account in dispute sent it special delivery and as of yet heard nothing back and it has been 3 weeks so I take it I am being ignored. Also sent an e-mail to Fred Goodwin on the 17th Sept and received a letter from Richard Hemsley CEO who said that the handwritten reconsturcted agreement represents a true copy of the original document.

 

They are still taking payments and a signed agreement does not exist. I am tired of sending letters and being ignored, I need some help in taking this further. I have already got FOS lokking into it but that could take forever and TS but I have not heard a peep from them despite chasing them up for information.

 

I am at a stand still. HELP

[paulwlton]

If they are taking payments from your account why not close it and go elsewhere.

 

RBS will continue to take the monthly payment because according to the OFT they have complied with your request. However they still cannot enforce it through the courts unless of course they provide a copy containing the prescribed terms which contains your sig.

Edited October 16, 2008 by paulwlton

[tinkerbell20]

but one thing you havent thought about i would think, is the fact that the court will automatically allocate a part 8 claim to the multi track

 

See Blackstones Civil Practice Chapter13, page 133, para 13.5

 

Fantastic if you wanna leave your client open to a royal a$$ whooping and huge costs orders as well:rolleyes:

 

 

Yes but if you're using solicitors it works the other way too............

[dacascos42]

I have been in contact with the OFT and they said to comply with the reqest they must supply a copy of the original agreement along with all other documents under the act. They have not done this as they have only sent the reconstucted agreement. As the agreement is under the consumer credit act it is that which they must abide by not what the oft say.

 

They should not be allowed to get away with this as surley thay now they are breaking the law.

[paulwlton]

I have a letter from John Fingleton the chief exec of the OFT stating that a "true copy" may be created from banking records.