Halifax sent me an unsigned copy of "an" agreement

[godpikachu]

OK Blair Oliver have been ringing every number they have to get in touch with me, so I called them and the conversation went a bit like this:

BOS: Can I have your reference number?

Me:

BOS: Can you confirm your name, address and D.O.B.?

Me: Not really, I don't know who it is I'm calling - I just have a text message here asking me to call the number.

BOS: We're calling on behalf of the Halifax with regards to your debt.

Me: Very well, let's get this out of the way

BOS: Thank you. I'm calling today...

Me: Correction, I called you.

BOS: ...fine...on behalf of the Halifax for the amount of £xxxx owing on your account and we require a payment in full.

Me: I don't know what you mean.

BOS: Your debt to the Halifax...

Me: Do you have a copy of a signed agreement?

BOS: If you just hold, I'll order you one up.

Me:

BOS: OK I've ordered you a copy of a credit agreement.

Me: Signed?

BOS: Pardon?

Me: A legally admissible signed copy of a credit agreement?

BOS: ...

Me: OK before this conversation goes any further, let me clear two points up because I have busy work to do.

One - I specifically instructed the Halifax to only contact me in writing, so that's reason number one why this call shouldn't be taking place. Two - I asked the Halifax for a signed copy of a credit agreement 9 months ago. This has not been produced. This is another reason why this phone call shouldn't be taking place. Currently, I am awaiting a response from Halifax with regards to a Subject Access Request I sent them a couple of weeks ago. That will tell for sure if a legally enforceable agreement exists.

BOS: Sir, if you don't want to co-operate then we'll have no choice but to take this to court.

Me: That's fine, but you'll have a hard time convincing the judge with no signed agreement to show him.

BOS: Ok goodbye

Me: Bye.

 

 

I am now quite stressed out, heh...

 

 

ha ha ha ha , class.

 

 

on a side note, id be inclined to send these monkies a bemused letter, as as far as you were concenred you were dealing dierect with the halifax, and as you CCA'd them and they havent properly responded, its actually illegal for them to pass the matter on to another party while its in dispute.

Also, in your bemused letter, id state that they are to keep everything in written form, NOT phone calls, NOT emails, NOT text messages.

 

additionally, i dont suppose these monkies have sent you a letter of assignment have they?

[Ypnos]

godpikachu - I've received nothing. First I heard of it was yesterday when I got the text message.

[godpikachu]

OOPS!....they should have sent you an assignment letter, stating that they were now dealing with it, because they havent, theyve done a boo boo.

 

either way, once youve sent them the bemused letter and told them to pack it in contacting you, you can just ignore them.

[Ypnos]

This just keeps getting betterer and betterer! Question is, how do I write to BO&S when I don't have their address?

[findingthecheese]

et voila!

 

Blair, Oliver and Scott Limited

Debt Collectors

PO Box 66

Rosyth

KY11 2WG

[Ypnos]

Ask and ye shall receive, eh? Thanks very much!

[Ypnos]

I'm thinking of sending this letter to the Halifax

 

Account In Dispute

Ref: xxxxxxxxxxx

Dear Sir/Madam

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account. On 23/05/2008 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 03-06-2008. The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account. You mentioned in your last letter that you were enclosing the statements, but no such documentation was attached.

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation. This limit has expired. As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law. As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment. Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days, I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully,

 

How do I wedge in some words about the lack of Letter of Assignment?

[godpikachu]

that letter is spot on, you dont need to add anything else, send it direct to halifax by recorded delivery.

 

if you get any furthur contact from their banana muching cronies, ignore them, after all, halifax are the ones who have ****ed up in this situation, and they should know damn well that they cant pass it on to an opportunistic 3rd party DCA monkey.

 

youve already got more than sufficient grounds for a complaint to both the OFT and FOS, so exersize your right and put those complaints in, it costs nothing after all!.

[Ypnos]

OK I'll get onto the authorities this weekend. In the meantime I'm heading to the post office to send the above letter and also a bemused letter to BO&S.

 

Thanks for the help, will keep this thread updated.

[Ypnos]

I got a letter today from BO&S saying they've been instructed by Halifax, blah blah blah. Does that constitute letter of assignment?

[Ypnos]

OK I received 2 things:

1. From Halifax I got the SAR documents. There is nothing but a 1-page covering letter and statements dating back to 2004. No agreement (not even an unsigned one) and no information regarding them passing the debt to BO&S.

 

2. I also received a letter from BO&S. They have completely disregarded the bemused letter I sent them and made no reference to it. It just says that I did not respond to them within the 5 days with a full payment or an repayment offer. They are threatening to send a door-to-door collector and/or take me to court.

 

What do you guys think?

[godpikachu]

#1

 

Halifax have failed to abide by your SAR, therefore you should write to them telling them they are very naughty and that you ar enow entitled to take them to court.

head your letter "letter before action".

 

#2

 

ignore BO&S, if they send anyone to your door,ask who made the appointment for them to call, then throw them off your property.

if they refuse to leave, call the police and have them do it.

 

these muppets WONT take you to court because they dont have any valid documents to do so, plus itd be illegal anyway as the matter is already in serious dispute with halifax.

 

if you can be bothered to, write them a short note (again) stating this and that you are currently beginning procedings against halifax for this reason.

[Ypnos]

Thanks, man. What should I write to the Halifax regarding the SAR?

[Ypnos]

OK BO&S have been calling me on my mobile every 15 minutes since I got home at 5! It is now 7pm and I've had to turn my phone of so I can spend time with my family in peace. Do these people not know boundaries?

[Guest dvdriley]

divert your phone to the local chinese or taxi service

[jonnyb1978]

divert your phone to the local chinese or taxi service

 

Or even the complaints dept for BOS. They can harrass themselves if they have nothing better to do.

[Ypnos]

OK I've had 2 communications. One is from BO&S saying that they are beginning court action.

 

The other is from the Halifax:

 

 

 

How correct is his response. I've looked at this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful.html and nowhere do I see that they need to provide a signed copy... This forum confuses the heck out of me some times... I'm basing the whole case on this signature being provided (which they didn not with my SAR) and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't freaking out over this impending court action with my defense based on conflicting information....!

[Guest dvdriley]

inorder to enforce an agreement in a court of law they will have to produce a signed agreement in court. I sit back and wait for their next move

[findingthecheese]

Hi Ypnos!

 

Listen to dvdriley - I received a similiar response from Hfx and I waited, they have now passed my 'disputed debt' on to Westcot.

 

Westcot are now 'investigating'!

 

Hope this helps to put your mind at ease.

 

ftc.

[Ypnos]

Today I received a photocopy of the agreement, as part of my SAR (not CCA, which I requested in May 2008).

 

On the front page is contains my personal details. A paragraph about it being regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 and my signature and date in my hand writing. On the back it states that they will decide what my credit limit is, it gives the APRs and some other T's and C's. So it seems they've found it...

 

Now what? I don't have the kind of money they're asking for. Can they charge interest for the 9 months during which they weren't providing the document?

 

I've already been having a rough time lately, now this...

[findingthecheese]

Hi Ypnos

 

Don't throw in the towel just yet!

 

Firstly I'd get one of the CAGers in the know to check that the doc is legit and enforceable.

 

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to help you out.

 

Stay strong.

 

ftc.

[Guest dvdriley]

can you post up the agreement

[Ypnos]

 

 

 

 

I'm going to see an Insolvency Practitioner about an IVA I think...

[Curlyben]

Interesting.

This DOES NOT comply as the prescribed terms don't appear to be within the signature document.

Now IF the terms where indeed on the reverse then it would, but what you have here, appears to be a pre-approved mailer application with ZERO reference to any terms overleaf.

[Ypnos]

I should have mentioned that the terms were actually on the reverse of the page. The above is a scan of the front and back