Re: Distressing phone call from MBNA

[car2403]

Hi Everyone!

Just a question.I notice that in some letters from banks when they say they have had their final say! you get told that you have six month to bring it to FOS! if you want to complain about non compliance of a CCA requets or doubts about its enforceability is it ok to put in complaint after six months if you decide you want to do this action after timescale?or any other misdeeds by bank? or DCA?

 

To complain to the FOS you need to do so within 6 months from the final response from the Creditor. If you want to complain to the FOS, but it's after the 6 month period, you may well need to complain to the creditor again, but in practise I don't think they would deal with it as you would fall outside of the process for complaints.

 

However...

 

That is only to progress your complaint with the FOS. Should you want to take Court action, you aren't precluded by the 6 months passing. You would, though, need to complain the the creditor and issue a letter before action to give them a chance to settle before you get to the point of issuing a Court claim.

[car2403]

Hi everyone on that bit of pamphlet saying reduced setttlement!MBNA dont go on to say in many cases that they will only record it as a partial settlement on CRA report and that afterwards they will sell remainder of debt onto other low life debt collecters to get the rest of debt of you,so the poor debtor shells out money on this reduced settlement thinking it is worth it and he will be left in peace only to find that then thathe nightmare begins again with another DCA agency chasing him for rest.That is a very cruel trick:mad:

 

It's only cruel to those debtors that don't make the partial settlement conditional on getting a written undertaking the no further collection activity will take place on the account.

 

I suspect the "offer" to partially settle would disappear if that condition was attached to it, however.

[car2403]

he told me I had broken the law by not telling him till the end of the conversation that I was recording the call and hung up on me !

 

Will this lot never learn.

 

By the way, get one of those call blockers (I see CAG are pushing one) and put a stop to these calls. That way, if they do come through, you have the upper hand, as they've already been told to bog off and haven't - meaning they are automatically in breach of the DPA, the CPUT and a handful of other legal goings ons...

[car2403]

What's that then CAR? - I haven't seen it.

 

Fred

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=224&a=143

[car2403]

Just thought i'd try and spread some cheer.... just had a call from MBNA (i cca'd them the other day)...I told them that i wanted a written response to my letter of last week before any further dialogue...I was told "We're a telephone bank, we don't write to people, we just deal with things over the 'phone... so we'll just send you letter asking you to call us.."....

 

made me laugh anyway..

 

And I would have said;

 

"Well, I'm a letter customer, so I will reply to your request to phone me by writing back asking what it is you'd like to discuss"...

 

And so the rigmarole would go on...

 

[car2403]

just a question to ur reply sarah could any company argue that if a person weres glasses/contacts the writing would have been readable if they were wearing hem.

 

Also if they do can u then argue that ur glasses were broken so without them u could not read it

 

The agreement should be easily legible to a reasonable person, whether that's someone wearing glasses or not.

 

Having said that, if this did happen in your case, (couldn't read the terms because your glasses were broken) you may have a chance of challenging them under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, IMHO. You could also challenge the legality of the relationship created under the contract of the agreement, as the parties were not in a balanced position and didn't freely enter in to the agreement knowing all the facts. That would be an interesting Court case...

[car2403]

What happens if you are so pi**ed when you get the agreement that your eyes can't focus properly?. It does happen quite a lot around this time of year.

 

Fred

 

One of the fundamentals of contract law is that the parties must intend to enter an agreement on the basis of creating a legal relationship - if it can be shown that such a basis couldn't and didn't exist, then the contract would be voidable by the Court in those instances.

 

The CCA dosen't go in to detail on these points, but, it would seem, as every CCA agreement is fundamentally a contract, the same principles would apply.

[car2403]

I don't think they're going to let us pull their credibility to shreds like this somehow. They have too many big backers, we are just the man in the street that pays their way, until now.... Don't try and get out of your debt, just try to find a reasonable way, at a reasonable repayment way to pay it back.....

 

Is this on the wrong thread, perhaps? If not, I don't understand the context of what you're saying, given the content of this thread, AA99?

[car2403]

Make's you laugh, I just had a call from a dca and it was like a dialek, robot voice " this - is - xyz coll-ections- this- i s, a call - for ( gap) a mrs...xxxx....- please - call ooh, 8, 4, 5, 6, x x x x this - is - ur, ge, nt.....twits They call on Christmas day and I'll have some fun with that one

 

I'm sure we could have some fun with this, if we play it right - you know, like those Radio shows that phone 2 people at the same time and then connect them to each other! I can just imagine the conversation now!

 

I'm also a big fan of the FoneJacker on e4, BTW...

 

"If I can just take your Baaank account number and sort code..." - Priceless!

[car2403]

By way subscribed to your thread now so you may wish to take a look at mine sometime, althought your a lot further down the line. skeggsy v mbna we all need to read read read and stick together

 

Here's the link;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/174475-skeggsy-mbna.html

 

[car2403]

Hello people, confusing AA99 here I apologise for the confusing comment. Ran out of steam and slipped there for a bit, sorry:eek:

 

We all have bad days, AA... Thanks for clarifying...

 

It's just that I didn't want people to think this forum was about getting out of repaying debts completely. I also have 3 x MBNA accs and have had exactly the same problems with all of them. I still find CCA's very confusing as to whether they are valid or not?! I haven't paid any of my MBNA accounts for 4 months now and although am aware of my debt that I spent on my cards, I am not prepared to be hounded like a dog for their charges and exorbitant interest rates. I am still with you all on here and hope you are with me!

 

Well, there are many views on how unenforceable CCA's work. Mine is that they don't allow the creditor to collect on the outstanding balance by taking you to Court. In all my cases, this has meant the debt has been written off. I haven't asked for that to happen, but the processes these companies use to collect debts short circuit when the enforceability is challenged and removed as an option - if they want to write off £20k, I'm not going to argue, even if I have to agree not to bring any other claims.

 

The legal situation is that the debt still exists and can be "collected" on, (ie, they can ask for payment, but can't demand it) but cannot be enforced in a Court. Continuing making payments is something each person has to determine themselves, referring to their own levels of morality. (It's just a win when they won't accept your payments because they've written the debt off and promised not to pursue you further!)

 

I have had successful mediation with 4 other credit cards, no harassment, fixed monthly repayment, interest and charges frozen, debt coming down slowly. Why can't they all be like that ?

 

If only, fella... If only...

[car2403]

Er, Sunflower, I think AA is saying that the bad experiences encountered were on another forum - not CAG...

 

[car2403]

Sue them for non-compliance and an order enforcing their compliance with your request

[car2403]

Hi AA99

Thanks for that so it sounds like it will be a good idea to involve them in my SAR request problem if MBNA do not comply!and i like the idea of being able to do it online! as it is more simpler and less hassle doing it that way!Thank again for recommending them!

 

The ICO is about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike

 

[car2403]

Maybe, but how much use are the OFT and FOS and the other 'regulatory' bodies at the moment ? Some of them are decidedly one-sided, not ours:|

 

Absolutely - my opinion on all this is outlined here;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/111211-defaults-background-removal-methods.html

[car2403]

can pigs fly?

 

They can on the Moon, or in MBNA's offices...

[car2403]

:eek: Reaches for box of tissues.

 

Only problem is...............I had that letter months ago and I'm STILL a customer of MBNA:-x:-x

 

David

 

If you aren't a customer of theirs any more, doesn't that mean you don't owe them any money then?

[car2403]

Hi Sunflower

 

Yes, MBNA ignored my CPR 31.16 that i sent recorded on 5th January.

They Sold the account on the 21st January.

 

Gaz

 

I hope you've formally complained to them about that.

 

Plus send a letter of complaint to the DCA, outlining what has happened.

[car2403]

Who did they sell it to Gaz.......

Iv bin thinking about token payments. is it better to make a token payment of 1.00 for example while you await your cca or does this takethe account of official dispute. my reason of thinking here is if you make a token payment will it reflect on your credit file that you have continued payments

 

A Judge will take that as acknowledgment of the debt, so watch out

[car2403]

8)

 

Hiya car2403

 

i spoke about this with trading standards and they had advised me to put against any cheque payments the amount ie say it was 1.00 the wording on the cheque as

 

Pay,,,,"one pound only paid under protest"

 

not done yet but ts said it was a way to show id only paid under the protest whilst awaiting my cca or sars info

 

what are your thoughts on this as i do understand what sunflower is concerned about, as it was my initial thoughts last year too,

 

many thanks angel x

 

hope you are okay sunflower sorry been busy on my reading around the forum past few weeks keep positive

 

IMHO, (I'm sure most Judges would agree) acknowledgement of the debt is acknowledgement of the debt. The end.

 

That's like me saying I'm paying £x to my mortgage company every month, but only under protest of them repossessing the property if I don't. I'm still acknowledging the debt every month.

 

Car I have been trying to find the answer to this all over the place including my threads thanks so much wont go down that route then, but surely acknowledgement of the debt is also that Iv been paying it for the past goodness knows how many years... or is it that Iv just realised that I shouldnt have been and thats when I cca them.

 

sorry sunflower for hijack may be able to find some letters for you will pm you

 

Acknowledment by paying without the informed detail about the debt being unenforceable could lead to you making those payments by mistake. (Of fact, of law, or just straightforward not knowing what your rights were)

 

Once you're aware of your legal rights - which you're stating by sending CCA requests and corresponding on it further afterwards - you can't say you didn't know what your rights were, so would lose the benefit of that mistake if it goes further. IMHO...

[car2403]

Hya Car thanks for words of wisdom as always

But I just cant get my head around what I say to the DJ when they say to me 'did you take out this card?' 'did you do a balance transfer to this card' 'have you used this card' yes yes yes but ok I didnt know what the real deal was in the rate of interest and repayments etc and what I thought they were they clearly were not and I cant prove either way without the cca.... is this right?

 

You would gently remind the Judge that the "intention" behind paying or not paying is irrelevant to the case in question. What is relevant is that the legal obligation to repay an unenforceable debt does not exist.

 

if you say you deny the debt, it will be enforced against you and you'll face having to appeal to get that reversed.

[car2403]

I think the notice of default sums and the default notice causes a lot of confusion - it certainly did for me in the beginning.

 

Sunflower did receive a proper DN. Fortunately, they took too long to deliver it:D

 

The only onus on the creditor is to send a DN - there is no requirement for it to be delivered, nor do they have to prove delivery.

[car2403]

Don't doubt your knowledge, Car, I know you've had a lot of successes.

 

 

Does the following not apply to DNs? Someone posted this on another thread relating to DNs

 

Quote:

1. Interpretation Act 1978, Section 7

 

This states:-

 

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

 

2. Practice Direction

Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail.

 

With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.

1. Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

2. To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;

(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.

3. Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used.

4. This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process.

 

8th March 1985

J R BICKFORD SMITH Senior Master

 

Queen's Bench Division

 

I might have missed something here, but the question asked was were they required to prove the DN was received. The answer I gave was no, as the Act (ss.87/88) only require the DN to be posted. I can't see how intrepretation of the meaning of service under the Act is relevant, then?;

 

87.—(1) Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a "

default notice ") is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by

reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement,—

(a) to terminate the agreement, or

(b) to demand earlier payment of any sum, or

© to recover possession of any goods or land, or

(d) to treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as

terminated, restricted or deferred, or

(e) to enforce any security.

 

While questioning whether service was effective is relevant in certain circumstances, it isn't in relation to whether the creditor needs to prove receipt of the DN.

[car2403]

Just a heads up for both of you - Restons do read these forums and will refer to your comments in their submissions to the Court for your claims.

[car2403]

i just hope i soon come across a few threads in my trawls where a caggers who have had completly won and sent Restons packing ,The threads i am subscribing too at moment are still ongoing battles but at least i can see how they get on and give them some moral support

 

You should look harder! ;)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/110146-car2403-hfc-bank-default.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/124572-hfc-no-agreement-amended.html