Mbna Cca- Illedgible!

[getitsorted]

Hi

I today received this CCA from MBNA for a virgin credit card. They went into default on 3rd July, so its a bit late.

 

They sent it printed on one piece of paper the first bit on one side and the second bit on the opposite side (obviously an attempt at making me believe this was originally two sides of the same document!).

 

Although on the suface I think this is probably enforceable, having the prescribed terms etc, BUT it is very illedgible which makes me think they have not photocopied it from the original.

 

Also on the front page you will see there is a pair of scissors above the section saying please sign this form and return to us. then there is a section with virgin address details and ANOTHER pair of scissors!! I have never seen anything like this before and it really makes me think they have 'hashed' this together in an attempt at making an enforecable agreement!

The signature of theirs also looks like it has been added at any time as there is no specific section and no date with it.

Also it is obviously the pre contractual agreement as it says, please issue a virgin credit card to me.

 

I read on here somewhere that just the fact that this is illedgible makes it unenforceable, is this true? Also there is nothing linking the two side from what i can see.

 

Could someone please take a look at it and maybe point me in the right direction for a letter asking them to resend one that i can actually read.

 

They also sent with it a few pages of the current terms and conditions as the charges are £12. On the front of these at the top it says here is a copy of your credit card agreement.

 

I really feel confident that they haven't got the original from what they have sent but from what i have read on here i don't expect them to send anything else and that they will keep on harassing me until the matter goes to court. Is there any way I can demand to see the original before it gets that far?

 

Thanks for any help!!

GIS

 

http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn292/amandagreen1980/?action=view&current=mbna23rdJulycca.jpg

 

http://s307.photobucket.com/albums/nn292/amandagreen1980/?action=view&current=mbna23Julycca2.jpg

[tinkerbell20]

Hi seems to be a mixture of agreements

[getitsorted]

Hi

I am shaking!! I have just had a rather irate conversation with a guy from MBNA! He phoned on my mobile from a mobile number and asked if i was "my name" and i said yes and he proceeded to tell me they had my letter under section 78 and he is required to tell me unless i pay ££ now he is passing it to his legal team to start litigation and then asked if i was a home owner, i said yes (is he just trying to scare me here?). There was no questions for data protection or anything!! the same guy phoned me the other day and didn't ask any security questions either but that was before they had received my reply that the cca was illegible. I stated that he couldn't start litigation while the account was in dispute because the ca they sent was illegible. He asked if i was willing to pay now and i said no not until you send me a valid cca that i can actually read. He said they had done that, he asked if i had paid the £1 for it and i said yes of course and he said that in my last letter stating the cca was illegible that i hadn't sent the cca back!!! i said no i didn't but you have obviously got a copy of it there! He said can i ask you to hold on to that to prove in court what we have sent you a valid legible cca, i said of course i will hold onto it to prove it is illegible! I then said if this goes to court then you would need the original cca and i have asked politely in a letter for a photocopy straight from the original so i can read it properly so why not just send me a copy straight from the original. He said they had, i said no it was obviously scanned it on a computer. He then said he is not getting into a conversation about it anymore unless i pay and i said oh i have to listen to you but you won't listen to me. he said he can't get into a discussion about it. I said well if you can't send me a better copy of the cca then you had better take me to court then, he said the file is being passed to their legal team for litigation TODAY!!!

I asked if anyone was going to replying to my letter in writing and he said the legal team will.

 

I AM VERY SCARED NOW!!! I don't mind admitting it!!

 

I mean the cca does look valid but there are some dodgy things about it (see above) so i really don't think they have the original, but why would the take me to court if they haven't got the original? it doesn't make sense!!

 

Am i right in thinking if they take me to court and show up with the original it will look bad on them for not cooperating with me and sending me a good copy of the original so i would then pay them and not waste the courts time?

 

This seems to have progressed a lot quicker than others on this site!! I have had threatening letters as such yet. Just one threatening to default me.

[AndyOrch]

Hi GIS

 

Calm Down

 

Why are you speaking to these to muppets on the phone anyway thats their intention to get you rattled.No more phone converations everything in writing. IMHO the CCA you have posted is totaly unenforcable I cant see any persribed terms.

 

Regards

Andy;)

[getitsorted]

Hi

Thanks!

I don't know why i spoke to him! He caught me off guard with the mobile number! I am so annoyed with myself for speaking to them! I usually do just say can you put everything in writing!!

 

I know that is exactly what they wanted, to get me scared like that!

 

Thanks for replying!

[AndyOrch]

Hi

 

What makes you think its enforcable?

 

Regards

Andy

[getitsorted]

Hi

I don't know. It has my signature on it on the front. It has the sentence that relates to the credit limit on the back and the apr and something about payments. BUT there is nothing to link the front and back, AND on the front there are 2 scissors so it looks a bit like a cut and paste job so I was confident they hadn't got the original was IF it was enforceable but they made me lose my confidence in that phone call, which is their aim!!

[getitsorted]

I say it has all thos things on the back ie the 'prescribed terms' but i can't actually read it properly, i can make out odd words and know they are part of sentences that i have read on my other cca's. I genuinely can't read it all and it is a really bad copy!

[getitsorted]

Hi everyone

I received a ltter replying to my letter saying the CCA is illegible and requesting a legible copy, they are not sending me anything else!! I have posted it below.

 

Image of mbna cca reply - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

Also I have received a default notice now. Could someone look at it and see if it is correct. They shouldn't be able to issue a default notice until they comply with my request should they?

 

Image of mbna default1 - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

What do i do in response to both their letters? reply saying they can't issue a default yet or just ignore them now until they take me to court?

 

Thanks

GIS

[tinkerbell20]

Thats not a Default notice just a letter threatening one

[AndyOrch]

Hi GIS

 

As tinker says not a default note.Can you post up the letter you sent in response minus personal info of course.They can issue a Default as you are in arrears irrespective of your complaint.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)