Nat West cannot locate loan agreement!

[posh23]

My partner took out a 15k loan with Nat West in 2001 for a 5 year term. He was self-employed at the time and still is. He had a PPI policy with this loan (of course) and was not advised that it was not appropriate for his circumstances. He has a copy of the Personal Loan Protector Certificate but does not have a copy of his loan agreement.

 

In August 2007, we sent an SAR to Nat West for the loan agreement. They sent copies of his bank statements which he did not ask for, as he keeps all of them! We subsequently wrote again twice to them, and then in December to the Information Commissioner!

 

Today, Nat West have sent a letter stating that they cannot locate the original loan agreement!

 

So, how do we proceed from here? Any advice welcome.

[alanalana]

Hello posh,

 

Do you still have the letter stating they do not hold copies of the CC agreement?

 

Is the Loan still active?

 

If so how long before settlement of the Loan?

 

Next step would in my opinion (which is not a legal representation) to request an accurate copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement as signed on the dateof the agreement.

 

aa

[posh23]

Thanks for your reply. The loan was taken out in 2001 for a 5 year term, so finished in 2006. The letter from Nat West stating they could not locate a copy of the loan agreement arrived yesterday, so yes, we do have it.

 

Please clarify what is the difference between the CCA and the loan agreement?

[alanalana]

Hello posh,

 

Thanks for your reply. The loan was taken out in 2001 for a 5 year term, so finished in 2006. The letter from Nat West stating they could not locate a copy of the loan agreement arrived yesterday, so yes, we do have it.

 

Please clarify what is the difference between the CCA and the loan agreement?

 

They are one and the same thing, A Consumer Credit Agreement under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 would be the same as their reference to a loan agreement so long as it was compliant with the Consumer Credit Act 1974. They state they cannot find the agreement!

 

In August 2007, we sent an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to Nat West for the loan agreement. They sent copies of his bank statements which he did not ask for,(when you submit a SAR your are requesting all data held by that organisation - including statements, but you must be specific about the data you require them to send to you) as he keeps all of them! We subsequently wrote again twice to them, and then in December to the Information Commissioner!

 

Was there a decision from the Information Commissioners Office (ICO) on the missing agreement?

 

The fact your loan was not settled until 2006 will mean you may have a chance the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) will look at any claim you submit as the ruling by the Financial Services Authority on the PPI issue came into force 0n 14 January 2005. If they would not consider your claim then Court would be your next course of action.

 

hope this helps you

 

aa

[posh23]

Thank you for your reply, once again. The SAR was specific, and the letter that was received this week confirms that it was delivered to the department that deals with bank charges by mistake, and that they failed to identify that we were making a full SAR rather than requesting statements. They also advise that when we wrote again, they sent out my partner's personal data on 1st December, and in that letter they confirmed they were unable to locate the loan agreement. If they did send out a letter on 1st December, it never arrived, and they didn't include a copy of it with this letter.

 

The Information Commissioner was contacted because we had not received a response (other than bank statements) from Nat West. The Information Commissioner is not aware that they cannot locate the loan agreement.

 

I think we will write (again) to Nat West requesting they resend this alleged letter of 1st December. However, that will still not bring forward a copy of the loan agreement, so I am still at a loss as to how we can progress this claim.

[alanalana]

Hello posh,

 

I think we will write (again) to Nat West requesting they resend this alleged letter of 1st December. However, that will still not bring forward a copy of the loan agreement, so I am still at a loss as to how we can progress this claim.

 

Are you able to recall any of the information with regards to the PPI element of the loan?

 

Your statements should show the repayments on the loan which you may be able to use to request a breakdown of the loan and PPI. The other thing you could mention in your letter is that they had an obligation under law to retain the paperwork for 5 years after the last transaction on the loan.

 

This is the link...

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/F/1/money_laundering_regulations2007.pdf

Part 3 19. Record Keeping.

 

PART 3

RECORD-KEEPING, PROCEDURES AND TRAINING

Record-keeping

19.—(1) Subject to paragraph (4), a relevant person must keep the records specified in

paragraph (2) for at least the period specified in paragraph (3).

(2) The records are—

(a) a copy of, or the references to, the evidence of the customer’s identity obtained pursuant

to regulation 7, 8, 10, 14 or 16(4);

(b) the supporting records (consisting of the original documents or copies) in respect of a

business relationship or occasional transaction which is the subject of customer due

diligence measures or ongoing monitoring.

(3) The period is five years beginning on—

(a) in the case of the records specified in paragraph (2)(a), the date on which—

(i) the occasional transaction is completed; or

(ii) the business relationship ends; or

(b) in the case of the records specified in paragraph (2)(b)—

(i) where the records relate to a particular transaction, the date on which the transaction

is completed;

(ii) for all other records, the date on which the business relationship ends.

 

If they then fail to produce the allegedly missing agreement, fire off another complaint to the ICO and also the FOS.

 

I get the general feeling they are trying to put obstacles in your attempt to reclaim PPI.

 

Hope this helps

 

aa

Edited June 21, 2008 by alanalana
link and text added

[posh23]

Would someone run their eye over this letter please, that we intend to send to Nat West in one last attempt to get the alleged missing loan agreement. Should we advise them that if we do not receive the loan agreement copy, that we will be taking further action - or should we include in this letter a request for the return of the PPI payments?

 

Thank you for your letter dated 16 June 2008, in which you advised that you are unable to locate the original loan agreement relating to the above account.

Please supply a copy of the letter you stated was sent on 1st December 2007 containing my personal data, as this was not received by me.

There is a legal obligation on your part to retain documentation relating to transactions which completed within the last five years, so I would again request that you comply with these regulations by providing a true signed copy of the original loan agreement, as requested in my initial letter dated 28 August 2007.

Specifically, please provide the amount borrowed under the above account number together with ancillary charges, ie total interest payable, monthly loan payments and monthly payment protection payments plus interest payable.

I look forward to receiving this information within 40 days, again to comply with the terms of the Data Protection Act.

[paulwlton]

Would someone run their eye over this letter please, that we intend to send to Nat West in one last attempt to get the alleged missing loan agreement. Should we advise them that if we do not receive the loan agreement copy, that we will be taking further action - or should we include in this letter a request for the return of the PPI payments?

 

Thank you for your letter dated 16 June 2008, in which you advised that you are unable to locate the original loan agreement relating to the above account.

 

Please supply a copy of the letter you stated was sent on 1st December 2007 containing my personal data, as this was not received by me.

 

There is a legal obligation on your part to retain documentation relating to transactions which completed within the last five years, so I would again request that you comply with these regulations by providing a true signed copy of the original loan agreement, as requested in my initial letter dated 28 August 2007.

 

Specifically, please provide the amount borrowed under the above account number together with ancillary charges, ie total interest payable, monthly loan payments and monthly payment protection payments plus interest payable.

 

I look forward to receiving this information within 40 days, again to comply with the terms of the Data Protection Act.

 

I would also add that it is common knowledge that you are able to recreate "true copies" from internal banking data going back a number of years as reported in the Guardian.

 

According to the article a "true copy" was recreated from data going back to 1998.

[posh23]

As an update to this thread, we still have not had a copy of the original loan agreement or the details requested in the SAR! This is despite contacting the Information Commissioner and writing 5 times now to Nat West.

 

We have, however, received a copy of the letter where they confirm they cannot locate the original loan agreement.

 

I am minded to now write to Nat West (again) and ask for a refund of the PPI, however I do not know how we work out what that should be.

 

My partner has all his bank statements which show:

 

Personal loan £258.26 (figure varies slightly each month)

Personal loan interest £120.77

 

We believe the APR of the loan was 8.9%, it was for £15,000 over 5 years.

 

Could someone advise how we would go about trying to calculate how much the PPI was for and how much we should try to claim?

[newward]

hello, what was the end result of this posh23?

[posh23]

Thanks for your message. There is no end result currently. We still have not received any information from Nat West, so just before Christmas, we were going to write to them again and attempt to work out what we think they owe based on all the payments on my partner's bank statements. However, he seems to have 'filed' all his statements somewhere extremely safe, and despite searching the house and store room, we cannot locate them! He definitely has them somewhere!!

[newward]

I have been speaking to Natwest since Oct/Nov. Refused to make my payment this month.. just keen on finding people will with similar issues. There are a couple of other posters on here, one seems slightly more advanced than me, and one just behind me. I was interested to see what the Info Commissioner had said.. the case is currently with the FOS, but they are not willing to do anything at this moment, as the company have not sent their final response.. but they wont will they?! as they known they are in the wrong... so frustrating

[posh23]

Can someone help me calculate how much interest I should try to claim please?

 

In the absence of the loan agreement (which NW cannot locate), I have now worked out that the PPI amount was £4252.87. I have calculated this figure by ascertaining what the loan repayments at 8.9% APR on £15,000 over 60 months should be (£18489.33) and deducted it from the total payments my partner made (£22742.20), and presume that the result is the PPI.

 

I now want to request the return of this payment, but am struggling with how to work out the exact amount to request.

 

Thanks in advance.

[alanalana]

I am not to hot on apr etc but here are a few links which may help you out.

 

Interest calculation spreadsheets

 

aa

[bizzib]

I will be watching this thread with great interest as my claim is in the calculation stages at present.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

x

[posh23]

Just to update this thread, we have today received a letter from NW offering only a few pence short of the amount we calculated, so that seems like a good result and within the 8 week timeframe too!

[citizenB]

That is good news

[alanalana]

Just to update this thread, we have today received a letter from NW offering only a few pence short of the amount we calculated, so that seems like a good result and within the 8 week timeframe too!

 

 

Let me know when you have the money in the bank and I will add a **WON** to your thread title ready to go into the PPI successess sticky at the top of the forum.

 

But as CB says it is looking good

 

aa