Rossendales - Argh!

[MissConfused]

Hi Guys, I got another one for you. I got behind with my Council Tax (only a couple of months, so i'm amazed the council sent it to Rossendales so quickly to be honest). But I paid it a while ago, I thought I paid it before I had my first letter from Rossendales, but they are saying I didn't. I just rang them this morning because when I got home last night, I had a notice of distress waiting for me. Not impressed, so I rang them to tell them I'd paid it online. She said the council told them it'd been paid on the 11th June, and the Bayliff first called around on the 6th June. Therefore I owe them the charges, for the first and second visit, the second being yesterday. I am not paying these charges - so is there anything I can do? Are they likely to carry on chasing me, carry on adding costs, so it goes up and up?

Any advice appreciated

Thanks guys.

[Guest wino]

Have they provided proof that they did visit your house? Did they leave a card on both occasions?

[MissConfused]

I have a letter from their first visit, and a notice of distress from their second. The second visit I know full well was after I had paid it off through the council, the first visit, I think was the same day as I paid it, or a couple of days before, i need to check when I made the payment, I'll have the receipt email somewhere.

[MissConfused]

I've just checked the receipt from the council, and it was paid on the 6th, so can't I argue that charge with them? I refuse to pay extra money - I have paid what I owed and I think that should be the end of it.

[Fair-Parking]

You have absolutely no legal obligation to pay the bailiffs anything. Nor is this anything to do with the council any more. They have their money so that concludes their involvement.

 

The fact that the council think the bailiffs should get something is irrelevant. If anybody argues differently, ask them for a copy of the stamped court order appertaining to the bailiffs 'rights' to these self inflicted 'expenses'.

 

Was there a magistrates liability order or did the council just employ them without any liability order?

[MissConfused]

Without sounding daft, what is a liability order? I have only had the bill from the council, a letter from the bayliff, i think it said "Notice of Warrant" at the top, and then this "notice of distress".

I rang the company earlier and she said that the council notified them of payment received, but I still have their charges to pay.....I just wanted to know if they are going to keep coming to my house/sending me letters as I am going to refuse to pay them! They are nothing but bullies.

[Fair-Parking]

A liability order is something the council can apply for if someone fails to pay rates. For this to happen you must have notice from the council and a date for a magistrates hearing which in the words of the letter you should have received is an opportunity for you 'to show good reason why you have not paid'.

 

If you haven't received that letter and if there has been no magistrates hearing and if your council has appointed bailiffs before this legal procedure has commenced then your council has been more than a little bit naughty. They've almost certainly acted illegally. Thus anything you have received from a bailiff is nothing more than intimidation based on a lie.

 

I have no idea what a 'Notice of warrant' or 'notice of distress' are and although there are similar terms such as 'Warrant Of Execution' and 'Distress Warrant' which are produced by a court, the ones you refer to may possibly be the product of imaginative but untruthful bailiffs pretending that they have court documents.

 

In short - attempted fraud by Rossendales as described by Section 3 of the Fraud Act 2006.

[MissConfused]

Thank you so much for explaining that to me. I am going to go through the paperwork I have received from the Council and also from Rossendales to be doubly sure that I haven't ever received a Liability Order. If I haven't, which I'm pretty sure of, then are these Charges from the Bayliff illegal?

 

If I have received one, does this mean that I have to pay them? Really sorry for all the questions, I'm trying to sort myself out Financially, and all these bills/debts keep popping up. I keep trying to clear them, only to find its gone up due to charges of one description or another. Im fighting a losing battle!

[tomtubby]

Sadly, when we receive copies of screen shots from bailiff companies it shows very clearly that many bailiff companies apply a first and many times a second visit charge to the account on the VERY DAY that they received instructions from the council.

 

Whether this is a mistake, error or fraud....that it for you to decide.

 

In fact this very point is the subject of a Court hearing in 2 weeks time from a previous poster on this forum !!! (He also refused to pay and stood his ground).

 

I would suggest writing to the company to say that although this is a small amount you beleive that this charge is wrong and that you therefore require a copy of the screen shot of your account as proof.

[Fair-Parking]

If you haven't received a liability order, and assuming that the rates are for the year 2008 - 2009 then you only owe for April - June 2008. If you have a liability order then what you owe is what is printed on that. You owe no more.

 

Yes, bailiffs are entitled to fees but they have no legal authority to enforce them, so forget the bailiffs, you owe them nothing as you are neither in contract with them nor subject to a court order that grants them fees.

 

Must apologise too for some incorrect information given yesterday. Courts produce Warrants Of Execution and Liability Orders and councils may issue Distress Warrants.

[Fair-Parking]

Just to be clear. Pay the council. Job done.