Being taken to Court by HFO Services -Please help Advice needed **WON**

[I've got no money]

I am mid way through a case brought by HFO Services. So a few initial suggestions:-

1. Complete, today if possible, and send back today the acknowledgment of service form stating that you are going to defend the claim. You need to send it to the County Court - send it recorded delivery. At the same time send a letter to Turnbull Rutherford enclosing a copy of the acknowledgment of service form.

2.Then, also send it by recorded delivery, write another letter to Turnbull Rutherford - start off by pointing out that as there has been a failure to comply with the CCA letter any proceedings are unlawful. Then go on in the letter to say that you intend to defend the claim but that their claim form is so poorly pleaded that you require additional information from them before you can file a defence. Then list everything you asked for in the CCA letter. Tell them that this letter should be treated as a formal request for further particulars of the particlas of claim. Tell them that they have 14 days to reply by 4pm on.....(the date 14 days after the date of the letter) if they don't reply by 4pm on that day that you will apply for an Order from the Court and that you will seek an Order for wasted costs against Turnbull Rutherford.

3. Contact Trading Standards and complain that the CCA request hasn't been complied with.

4. As soon as the 14 days are up make an application on a form N244 to the county Court for an Order that

(1)the claimant comply with your request for further and better particulars of the claim within 7 days of the date of the Order

(2) That the time for the Service of the Defence be extended to 28 days after the date upon which the Claimant has complied with the request for further particulars of the defence

(3) That the case be transferred to your local County Court

(4) That the costs of and occasioned by the application be paid by the Claimant in any event. Payment to be made within 14 days of the date of the Order

 

Without knowing exactly what the basis for the claim is it is difficult to say what the prospects of success are. So you need the information from the claimant. Don't forget that as a firm Turnbull Rutherford only has one Solicitor. Most of the work is done by unqualified staff so don't let them intimidate you. Just remember anything you send them keep copy and send it by either fax or recorded delivery.

 

If there is a local CAB see them or if you qualify under the legal help scheme see a local Solicitor.

[I've got no money]

Wasted Costs - there are provisions in the Civil Procedure Rules for a firm of Slicitors to be made personally responsible for costs. It's actually quite difficult to get but if you can show that the Solicitors have caused lots of problems you can sometimes get the Order. To have a wasted costs order made against them is really serious as it has a direct effect on the Solicitors Professional Indemnity Insurance Premiums (they go up). You won't get a wasted costs order this time round but further down the line when they fail to do something else you may do...

[I've got no money]

Yes - the letters is basically the same. I think that they need to know that you know that it isn't enforceable

 

In terms of sending the two letters together that's fine - just mark one - first letter the other second letter. Is there a fax at work that you could use. Can you fax it to them from work then it wouldn't cost you anything, you'd have proof of delivery and you wouldn't need to send a hard copy at all.

[I've got no money]

That's fair enough, although incidentally my experience of Turnbull Rutherford is that its' virtually impossible to get them to contact me.

 

At this stage you don't need to send a copy to the court. All you need is to send, at this stage is the acknowledgment of service. If you don't get a reply from Turnbull Rutherford within 14 days then you need to apply to the court (N244) and at that stage provide the court with a copy of your old letter (December 2007) and also the new letter

[I've got no money]

If, no I'll rephrase that, when HFO (Turnbull Rutherford) don't reply if you post or PM (taking out your name and anything that identifies you) a copy of the claim form either I or I suspect somebody else on here will be happy to help draft a defence.

 

If you qualify for public funding (legal aid) it may be an idea to see a Solicitor or to visit your local CAB

[I've got no money]

If you do write to the other side mark the letter Without Prejudice at the top.

 

Contrary to popular belief there are Solicitors out there who know about CCA - some CABx have excellent debt advisers - I worked with two for a couple of years - they taught me everything I know about debts, I know of a number of firms of Solicitors across the country who know about consumer credit.

 

The Legal Services Commission website can tell you which Solicitors have consumer franchises. If there is one near to you, if you qualify for public funding, it won't cost you anything. If you want to PM and tell me what area you live in I may be able to give you an idea where to go to.

[I've got no money]

If it was received on the 6th of June then they should reply by the 20th June. What I would be inclined to do is wait until Friday. Then send them a letter giving them until 4pm on the 26th June to reply to your CPR letter. Tell them that if they don't reply by that time that you will apply for an Order that they do reply and for an order for your costs. Send it by recorded delivery

 

Then on the 27th June you send an N244 to the court - firstly seeking a transfer to your local court (puts' its' name on the application), secondly attach copies of your original CPR letter and your chasing letter and ask the court for an order that your CPR request be complied with in 7 days. Thirdly claim your costs. You need to send three copies of the N244 (so three copies of your letters as well). As your defence is due around then you may as well send in your holding defence at the same time, again three copies of the defence go to the court.

 

Send it by first class recorded delivery to the court. I would also write to our heroes and enclose a copy of the defence and also a copy of your application notice.

 

A word of advice if/when Turnbull Rutherford write to you keep both the letter and also the envelope it came in.

 

I'm sort of tied up at the moment but I'll post a draft N244 later in the week to show you how to do it

[I've got no money]

Defence - I'm losing my marbles - can you post a copy of the claim form - remove your name and anything that would identify you - court number, their reference etc and then we can help you with the defence.

[I've got no money]

It won't do any harm to blank the amounts out as well - we know already that its' under £5k

[I've got no money]

Don't forget that the court doesn't read the claim/defences in addition to what 42man has said you need to make an application - you can do it on the same N244 as the one that you're gonna send in next week for an order that they comply with your CPR request that the court strikes out the claim, on the grounds that 42man suggests - don't forget also claim costs.

 

I'm sort of busy tonight - I'll draft an N244 up for you Sunday if that helps

[I've got no money]

I think that there is a little confusion over S136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 what it means is that for an assignment to be valid notice of the assignmentmust be given...etc

 

In all of the cases I have come across on the forum no creditor has ever sent a copy of the actual assignment - the issue is whether the notice was given.

 

Don't forget that sending a notice of an assignment does not create an assignment. There must also be an original assignment in existence - all the notice does is make the pre-existing assignment effective.

 

It is therefore crucial in every case to request a copy of the original assignment document.

 

Hope that clarifies things a bit

[I've got no money]

Is something like this OK - you need to put your own name/address on the top and also the solicitors address and send it by recorded delivery or fax

 

 

Your ref:

Date:

Dear Sirs,

Re: insert case heading and case number

I refer to the above and to my unanswered letter of the (date), please find copy attached.

I note with grave concern that you have failed to respond to my letter. You will of course appreciate that it is incumbent upon you, pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules to provide the information requested. I would add that your failure to respond has made it impossible for me to file a properly pleaded defence.

In the circumstances I must therefore require a full response to my letter by no later than 4pm on the (insert date). If I do not receive a full response by that time I shall be forced to apply to the court for an Order compelling a response. I should advise that if such an application proves necessary that I shall also apply for an Order for my costs in any event.

I await your most urgent response.

Yours faithfully,

[I've got no money]

Hi Guys, As Promised I've drafted up an N244 - I was shocked to discover that they've changed the form. There used to be a page for evidence now that's been reduced to about 20 lines - the rest has to go on a separate sheet

 

What I don't know is how I attach it to a posting.

 

I've got the actual form in Acrobat, so Rosie (hopefully) should be able to edit it and the extra evidence in a word document.

[I've got no money]

pge1N244CAG001.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

and

pge2N244CAG001.jpg - Image - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

I'm having really serious problems with my ISP today - my internet connection keeps crashing. There are two more pages - the first one is the guidance on issuing an N244 - its' on the Court service website.

The second I'm going to copy and paste onto a posting - it means that you can copy it and use it rather than retype it.

 

Have a read through then let me have any questions and I'll explain why I've done what I've done

[I've got no money]

IN THE NORTHAMPTON COUNTY COURT CLAIM NO:

BETWEEN

H F O SERVICES LTD

CLAIMANT

V

DEFENDANT

DEFENDANTS EVIDENCE IN SUPPORT OF THE APPLICATION MADE THE 2008

Continued from paragraph 10 of the N244 Application Notice

5. The Claim form is issued by HFO Services Limited. HFO Services Limited is a company registered in the United Kingdom. The Particulars of claim then assert that the claimant is HFO Capital Limited, which is a company registered in Gran Cayman. The Particulars of claim do not therefore disclose any cause of action as between HFO Services Limited and me. HFO Capital and HFO Services are two separate legal entities. The Claim should therefore be struck out.

6. The Claim form is poorly drafted and does not provide sufficient information for me to firstly determine whether the monies claimed are lawfully owing and secondly to draft a properly pleaded defence. On receipt of these proceedings I therefore filed an Acknowledgment of Service with the court and wrote pursuant to part 18 of the Civil procedure Rules, on the (date of CPR Letter), to the Claimants’ Solicitors. I attach a copy of that letter to this application. I have not received a reply to that letter. I therefore wrote, on the (insert date) a further letter to the Claimants’ Solicitor seeking a reply. I attach a copy of that letter to this application. I have not received a reply to the letter. Both letters were sent by recorded delivery. I attach copies of online delivery receipts provided by Royal Mail confirming delivery. The information requested in that letter is essential to enable me to properly participate in these proceedings.

7. In the Particulars of Claim the claimant refers to an Assignment and asserts that I have been provided with a Notice of such Assignment. This is not true. I have never received such a notice.

8. I do not know whether there has actually been an Assignment at all. I therefore ask that the Court Order the Claimant to disclose copies of any original assignments upon which it seeks to rely.

9. I am a litigant in person the failure by the claimant to properly plead the claim and the failure to respond to my correspondence has caused me to expend substantial time on this claim. I accordingly seek an order that the claimant pay my costs in any event.

 

 

Any gaps on the forms need completing, likewise if I've put in brackets put date, name of court etc that all needs filling in as does the case name etc

[I've got no money]

Uhh - Don't ask me why its' put all the stuff in about font...it wasn't supposed to

[I've got no money]

How you draft the defence in many ways is up to you. When I defended my claim it was basically in the terms of the one that I posted earlier

 

You don't need to plead greta chunks of law, technically you're not supposed to (but LIP's get away with it). I didn't, cos I forgot, put in a paragraph about a failure to comply with cpr 18 and the failure to comply with a CCA letter so they need to go in but apart from that the defence I used would be fine.

 

I would send off the Application at the same time as the defence.

 

The Court fee - look at the court service website - the financial limits for fees exemption/remission have changed - you might qualify - have a look at form ex 160

 

If you want to pm me your email address I'll email you the N244 in pdf form

 

1. The Particulars of claim are not in numbered paragraphs. I have therefore numbered the points of this defence in an order which appears to be logical.

2. The Claim form identifies the claimant as HFO Services Limited. In the Particulars of Claim the Claimant is identified as HFO Capital Limited. HFO Services Limited and HFO Capital Limited are two separate legal entities.

3. The Particulars of claim do not disclose any cause of action between me and the Claimant HFO Services Limited.

4. I admit that I entered into an agreement with Barclaycard. That Agreement was regulated under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act (The Act). I make no admissions as to whether that agreement is enforceable within the terms of The Act. I put the claimant to strict proof that the said agreement is enforceable both as of the date of its’ inception and at all times thereafter.

5. I do not admit that a Lawful Assignment of the aforesaid agreement has taken place. I put the claimant to strict proof as to such an assignment.

6. I do not admit that I have been provided with a letter of assignment. I put the claimant to strict proof thereof.

7. If, which is not admitted, the agreement is enforceable and a lawful assignment has taken place, I do not admit that I am indebted to the claimant in the sums claimed. I put the claimant to strict proof of all sums claimed.

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

I Believe that the facts stated in this Defence are True

[I've got no money]

Rosie,

 

I have replied to the email. In answer to the question you need an N244 - you may be able to get the £75 either waived or reduced - the information is on the court service website. You need to look at the form ex 160 - it tells you what the financial limits are and how to apply. You send the completed ex 160 with your N244

[I've got no money]

Broken Arrow is right - you need to send

N244 together with copies of the letters x 3 - what I do is three sets all stapled separately. That is so the court has one copy, it seals and serves one copy on the other side (with the date of the hearing) and it seals and returns, with the date of the hearing, one copy to you. If you are going to apply for remission of the fee, you need to put in a form of application for remission if not you need to enclose a cheque for £75.

 

Keep us informed

[I've got no money]

The court staff shouldn't be giving legal advice - they're expressly not allowed to.

 

The purpose of the N244 is to bring your case to a speedy conclusion. The reality is that the Court, i.e. a Judge won't read the defence until the allocation stage - and even then they won't read it very carefully - it is true that part of the application - that is the bit about there being no cause of action could theoretically wait until trial.

 

The problem is that you need the cpr part 18 information before trial. If you don't make the application on the N244 you run the risk of getting to trial and not have enough information to mount a proper defence or of them suddenly springing something on you. Although the defence mentions the failure to comply with the rule 18 request strictly speaking it is NOT part of the defence to the claim. It's only in it to try and get some sympathy.

 

On my experience of this particular outfit you need to make the application now.

[I've got no money]

Yes - I've had a few problems with the site - I've not been getting emails - and its' kicked me out a few times.

 

The most important thing is get the defence in - what you could do then - is do another chasing letter to our heroes - giving them a further week to reply - its' all about you appearing to the court to being reasonable - then if they don't reply within a couple of weeks then issue the N244 - basically you just write to them saying that you refer to your unanswered letters of (date) and (date) and note with grave concern that they have not had the courtesy to reply. Tell them that their failure to reply has resulted in your incurring costs. That you are prepared to give them one last opportunity to respond by 4pm on (date) in default you will submit an N244 and will seek costs.

[I've got no money]

There are three ways of getting court fees either waived in full or in part.

 

Qualifying Benefits - If you get IS or Income Based JSA or Pension Credit or Working Tax Credit (BUT NOT Child tax credit) you get all the fees waived.

 

The Gross income rules for remission - if your Total Gross Income (there are things which don't count as income) does NOT exceed;-

1. Single person NO Dependants - £12000

2. Single Person ONE Child - £14735

3. Single Person TWO Children - £17470

4. Single Person THREE Children - £20205

5. Single Person FOUR Children - £22940

Each Additional child - £2735

 

The rates for a couple are £4000 extra

 

Then you get the fees waived in full.

 

The Third way is Part Remission based on a means test - basically they take your current income deduct certain allowable expenses and come up with a figure at the end which determines whether/how much fees you have to pay

[I've got no money]

Don't put the fact that you are going to submit an N244 on the defence - I'll see what I can do about sorting out an ex160

 

I'll email you one - the only thing to remember about the one that I'm going to email is that the allowances shown on it have been increased as of the 1st May 2008 to the ones' that I've listed above.

 

If you need to apply using the third option the correct figures are...

 

Partner £150 per month

Dependant Child £228 per month

General Living Costs £296 per month - this figure must not be used if you have no monthly housing cost.

[I've got no money]

Unfortunately they do consider your partners income...

[I've got no money]

Don't panic...

 

Fine if they want an Order they can have one - the whole point about writing and asking for information is to minimise costs - As Broken Arrow points out you now need to make the application to the court. You also need to attach a copy of that letter to the N244 and to add a bit about it in the evidence section to say that you wrote to the other side to try to reduce costs and to colect enough information to allow you to properly plead a defence. As they have refused to cooperate you have no alternative other than to apply to the court - apply to strike them out - its' in the N244 I drafted...what a bunch of Bankers

 

Still you must have done something right - at least they've written to you...they tend to ignore me...they must like you

 

Although I think the issue fee is £75 - give the court a call and check

 

Don't forget that Turnbull Rutherfords - only actually have one Solicitor in the whole firm - the rest are "paralegals"