very unusual county court claim - please help!

[money4nothin 4mercs4 3]

Not sure if this is the right part of the forum or if anyone can help - but here goes???

 

A county court claim form has been sent in my name, to a former workplace I have left 4 years ago. This follows a letter, from my brother, again sent to the former workplace and phone calls saying he was a long lost relative and wanted to know how my baby was??

 

The claim is for £1500 after I alledgedly "stole" a car belonging to him. He tried to claim this event happened around September 2002, at the time the police did not pusue the matter as there was no evidence. They did not even question me at the time or since. Since then he has been in prison twice.

 

The claim form states that he is claiming for the value of the car £1500, following "theft". Details on disputing the claim etc have been sent with the form. The form has court stamps on it, however the one with the date has been crossed out in pen, date changed, and is illegable. The postmark is May 30th. I have started to read a little on here and elsewhere on CC action / information, however am not sure where to turn??

 

Is it true that even though this has been sent to an address clearly not mine, action can still continue (as a side issue my brother knows our mother would pass on letters). Also is it possible to respond without giving my address (due to concerns of harrasment)?

 

Also can this go to court if he does not produce any proof to back the claim - no police action, no proof of purchase, no proof of amount being correct, he also had no driving license / insurance at the time he alledgedly had the car stolen? Would Statute barred rules apply beyond September?

 

Finally one big question, what does "contesting the jurisdiction" mean?

 

Sorry it's a bit information overload and if this is not the right forum, but with a young family to support this is just a bit of a worry.

 

Many thanks for reading

[creditcardmug]

All sounds very dodgy, just phone the court and confirm the claim exists in the first instance

[I've got no money]

Don't Panic.

 

Don't worry about contesting the jurisdiction - that's rather technical and doesn't apply.

 

There are a number of rules governing service of proceedings but as you've now got the form you can deal with it. The basic rule is that he who asserts must prove...

 

You need to speak to the court and confirm the issue date and to file ASAP an acknowledgment of service and a defence. The easiest way to write a defence is to go through the claim form and to respond, in a separately numbered paragraph t every allegation made. Incidentally the fact that no criminal proceedings were brought has no particular relevance.

 

Its' probably worth getting a Solicitor to have a look at it, some CAB's have sessions manned by Solicitors. Check with your local CAB

[Goldlady]

Contesting the jurisdiction means that you think it should be heard in a different level of court - so not relevant to what you are dealing with.

 

I presume you have not seen your brother for a while. And don't want to. Has he done this out of financial greed or because he is trying to cause you trouble?

 

It is a difficult one. My first thought is to send back the claim saying that you are not known at the address, but then you could end up with a default judgement. If you defend it you will need to supply an address and will possibly have to attend court. Yes it would be statute barred in Sept but the court claim has been issued in time so that is not going to help.

 

Maybe - and I am not sure how this would work - you could send back the defence using a c/o address and explain the situation. I would think that to make a claim for restitution following theft he would at the very least need a crime number.

 

Probably not much help, but hopefully someone else will have more ideas.

[money4nothin 4mercs4 3]

thanks for the replies,

 

I think this is greed and "wanting to get at me" sadly.

 

Am not sure which appraoch to take. My former work are willing to send the letter back, saying that I have not worked there for 4 years. Also how would the court know whether or not the letter has been received? Or is it case that this does not matter.

 

Am more than willing to defend the claim to, as I cannot see what proof there is to the claim.

 

Am also a bit dismayed at how easy it is to put someone through the CC system with no proof.

 

The legal advice seems a good idea, but I cannot afford this until the 15th June, even then it is ans expense my young family does not need.

[NitrousOxide]

The "theft" would have needed to be proved, and proof is on the claimant.

This would be easy to defend but would mean giving up your address.

[money4nothin 4mercs4 3]

Hi everyone,

 

just thought would update on progress so far. The claim is genuine and I have the dates for response and defence.

 

I have sent off the acknowledgement of service. Not quite sure in a defence, as all the claimant has put in the details of claim section is "recovery of money to the value of £1500 for the theft and sale of a motor car belonging to the claimant" - this is all that is on the form.

 

One thought I had in terms of defence;

 

If the car was "stolen", surely county court is meant to be a form of last resort in recovering money. Therefore surely the court can go back to claimant and say why have you not claimed on your car insurance to get the money back? The answer to this is the claimant was driving the car uninsured and without a driving licence at the time. Would this key point have an influence on any defence I can write??

 

In terms of seeking advice, this site seems to be the only place most people can turn to. The CAB said they were unwilling and unable to advise and a solicitor would cost £200 + VAT per hour. Although am exploring the opportunity to claim legal aid to help, although I beleive my level of income is borderline for this.

[Goldlady]

Can I ask what actually happened to the car? I am just interested, and it may be relevant to any defence we manage to come up with.

[NitrousOxide]

If the police were not involved and it's not proven theft I'd be tempted to say the judge will dismiss it.

And yes, I would be asking why their insurance didn't get involved. I'd also ask for proof of ownership.

[I've got no money]

Solicitors - You should be able to see a fee earner in a high street practice for less than £200 plus vat - that sort of money would get you an equity partner...

 

The fact that claimant may or not have been able to claim on his insurance insofar as the issue of proceedings is concerned has no relevance. It is relevant if he wins when the court has to assess the value of his claim. At this point it is neither here nor there. The fact that the car in question was not insured has no relevance, neither does the lack of car insurance.

 

That to one side. A bit of detail would be helpful - what is the car, who owned it - not who was the registered keeper but who bought it and paid for it.

 

In terms of how to plead a defence:-

Plead it in response to the allegation "It is averred that the particulars claim give rise to any cause of action further and in any event it is denied that the Defendant has at any time stolen or otherwise unlawfully appropriated any right or interest in any motor vehicle belonging to the claimant. It is therefore denied that the Defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all"

 

Job done - that defence meets the allegation - it is however a method of pleading that the court's aren't too keen on but as a Litigant in Person if you were to do it you would get away with it.

 

Technically the claim and defence need explaining - you can either produce a request for further and better particulars of the claim where you ask your brother to specify:- Precise details of the vehicle, when/how he purchased it, when/how he alleges that you stole it

 

Technically you can't issue proceedings in the county court for theft - there is no civil wrong of theft - your brother should have brought proceedings in a thing called the tort of "conversion" [a tort is a civil wrong] - you could therefore apply to strike out his claim - the problem with that is that you have to pay a fee and it is likely that the court would let him amend his claim - that is re-phrase it into conversion. So you're probably better off not wasting the £60 fee on an N244 and letting the case take its' course.

 

So I would file the defence and at the same time send a request for further and better particulars. If you are concerned that your brother may find your address - you can either apply to the the court on an N244 for an order not to disclose the address, and pay a fee, or alternatively obtain a PO Box and use that as your address

[I've got no money]

I think that there is a bit of confusion over Theft, Police and crime.

 

Theft is a criminal offence S1 Theft Act 1968 - appropriate property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it. Is a criminal offence dealt with exclusively in the criminal courts - prosecution must prove on the criminal standard of proof (Certain so that you are sure - beyond reasonable doubt - 99%) that the offence was committed. Cases are dealt with in the Magistrates and Crown Court

 

The County Court on the other hand deals with civil matters. In a civil case the act complained of must, usually, be proved on the civil standard of proof (balance of probabilities - more likely than not - 51%).

 

The Civil standard is much lower than the criminal standard - so conduct which cannot be proven on the criminal standard may, in certain cases, be proven on the civil standard because the standard of proof is less.

[money4nothin 4mercs4 3]

Hi

 

many thanks for all the help so far, it's appreciated. Advise wise i tried a solicitors that deal with legal aid. However they said that due to the amount of the claim (£1500) it would be best to defend this myself.

 

I have picked up a form n244 -when completing this how do I get across the points made above?

 

Also, to give a bit more detail of what happened;

 

Back in 2002 my brother and mother asked if I could travel to pick up my brothers' car and look after it for a short time. My brother was about to be on trial, but said that he was not guilty and he would be able to collect the car back in a week. I went up and collected the car, my brother assured me that at the time the car had an MOT, I have fully comp'+ business insurance - therefore can drive any car with permission. I said to them that I would look after the car for a week, but was unable to do so beyond that time.

 

I drove the car back to whre I was living at the time. This was bad as throughout the journey the roof was leaking, a window was broken and I was unhappy with condition of the brakes. I placed a week worth of parking vouchers on the car.

 

After a week, my brother was sent to trial and on the day of verdict, broke all contact with my mother and was sent to prison for 3 years with no further communication.

After a time the car was towed away by persons unknown.

 

Have sent a letter asking my brother to outline the particulars of the claim so I can write a defence, but because he has not put any detail, still not sure what to write. As a sideline our mother has said she is happy to be a witness for me if required.

[Goldlady]

I think I would submit a defence explaining what actually happened more or less as you have above. You were not responsible for the car, and it sounds very unlikely that it was worth £1500. I presume you did not report its disappearance as you were probably quite pleased it had gone.

[I've got no money]

Goldlady is right - basically explain what happened. Do it in a logical way in numbered paragraphs ending with a paragraph saying "It is averred that the particulars claim give rise to any cause of action further and in any event it is denied that the Defendant has at any time stolen or otherwise unlawfully appropriated any right or interest in any motor vehicle belonging to the claimant. It is therefore denied that the Defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all"