HFO claimform - old Morgan Stanley Card Debt **WON**

[Richard Spud]

Excellent IGNM! This is what the Cabot people came up against because the assignment instruments were copies contained in a book debt transfer. Although obiter it could be cited at disclosure and in a Part 18 request - don't you think?

 

Best - Richard.

[I've got no money]

Does a book debt transfer amount to a valid assignment - depends on what the documernts say.

 

Court of Appeal obiter actually carries a lot of weight in the County Court so it should be cited.

 

I personally wouldn't use Part 18 to try and get a copy of the actual assignment - use CPR 31.14 - it specifically requires disclosure of any document mentioned in any claim form. witness statements etc

 

As an example if you just wanted them to answer a question - say asking the date of assignment that is what I would generally use Part 18 for IF HOWEVER you wanted the document I'd generally use 31.14

[broken arrow]

Back from my hearing.

Application for permission to appeal granted.

[tendogs]

That's good news BA.

[fedup21]

Hi BA, well done, great news! Any indication of how long before hearing?

[Docman]

Back from my hearing.

Application for permission to appeal granted.

 

Well done BA. Now we can all help with the appeal itself if you like.

[broken arrow]

The Judge recomended the appeal be heared by a chancery Judge who would have more knowledge of credit law.

 

I made him aware of s127, which he looked up and I quoted Wilson v FCT.

 

In general the judge was understanding and listened to my points unlike the previous hearing.

 

He still raised the moral argument though.

[I've got no money]

Excellent...that is seriously well done...and of course we'll all help out - did he give any directions - presumably you've got to serve the other side.

 

Just out of interest which court is it in?

[Rhia]

Excellent result Broken Arrow. Sounds like this was a fairer judge than the last. I do wonder if the events of the past six months (bankers, banks, greed and devastation) has given these DJs a different insight. One can but hope.

 

Re the moral argument though - courts only deal in points of law. Don't they?

[DonkeyB]

Whooo hoooo! Made my day

 

Quite right Rhia - courts deal in law, not morals. As if HFO had any morals...whose morals are in question, I wonder?

 

Well done BA. Makes the first judge look like a bit of a monkey. Incidentally, a deputy district judge was sacked the other day - the first one in 30 years! Talk about a safe job!

[broken arrow]

Excellent...that is seriously well done...and of course we'll all help out - did he give any directions - presumably you've got to serve the other side.

 

Just out of interest which court is it in?

 

Leeds

[I've got no money]

Leeds

 

I'm in Sheffield - who was the Judge who did the permission to appeal.

 

If you post the date of the appeal, assuming I'm free, I'll come over and provide a bit of moral support

[DonkeyB]

Well, we need to get all the CAG big guns onto this to make sure it's watertight and that any 'moral' issues get blown out of the water. Look forward to another battle in the war against the vermin!

 

(Sorry, IGNM, didn't mean your 'moral' support!)

[I've got no money]

Whooo hoooo! Made my day

 

 

Well done BA. Makes the first judge look like a bit of a monkey. Incidentally, a deputy district judge was sacked the other day - the first one in 30 years! Talk about a safe job!

 

That's unusual - although they do actually get rid of Deputy DJ's - a Deputy is only on a fixed term contract - its' not unknown for contracts not to be renewed but to sack one - do you know why? If so do tell

[DonkeyB]

Sacked for rudeness and petulance to solicitors - obviously doesn't matter what they do to us mere mortals

 

Judge sacked for being 'rude and petulant' - Telegraph

[Rhia]

Rather enjoyed the bit about the "defrocked" Judge Bruce Chapman smuggling whisky in 1983. Now I could have coped with him in court.

[Docman]

The Judge recomended the appeal be heared by a chancery Judge who would have more knowledge of credit law.

 

I made him aware of s127, which he looked up and I quoted Wilson v FCT.

 

In general the judge was understanding and listened to my points unlike the previous hearing.

 

He still raised the moral argument though.

 

Well done BA. Don't worry about the 'moral' argument. This is a court of law - and Lord Hoffman's speech on 'unfair enrichment' will deal with the moral point.

[Richard Spud]

Quotes from the Daily Hansard Parliamentary Debate regarding Debt Collection and the Consumer Credit Act on 22 April 2009 beginning at column 338.

At column 341 Mr Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock) (Lab) states:

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” [my emphasis added]

At column 342 The Minister for Trade, Development and Consumer Affairs (Mr. Gareth Thomas) states:

“The OFT would expect the debt collection agency concerned to have checked the accuracy of the client data details that it received from the creditor or agency, and, where possible, to have obtained a copy of the original consumer credit agreement.” [my emphasis added]

See the original Hansard publication on the link below:

House of Commons Hansard Debates for 22 Apr 2009 (pt 0019)

HTH

Regards – Richard.

[staytet]

ll

[broken arrow]

Hearing date set for 19th May,will post order this afternoon.

[I've got no money]

I don't know what I'm doing then...I'll check when I get home...if I'm free I'll come over to Leeds - what time are you up

Edited May 6, 2009 by I've got no money

[broken arrow]

10:30, with time estimate of one and a half hours.

Will post order when I set my scanner up this afternoon.

[I've got no money]

Have you been orderes to file a skeleton - even if you haven't as an LIP you'd get away with filing one - likewise doing an amended defence...

 

We need to come up with something good - and we will

[broken arrow]

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p350/brokenarrow_08/order1.jpg

[broken arrow]

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p350/brokenarrow_08/order2.jpg