CCMAN Vs RBS

[ccman]

The long story cut short......

 

Had the card for about 10 years. Upto £X K and maintained minimums. Last 3 years had a default for 3 missed payments but still JUST kept them happy. However, I have now found this forum and what a wonderfull place it is!

 

Debt started to be chased by Intrum Justitia. I kept all corespondance with RBS which really annoyed them! They ignored my F&F offers and I&E forms.

 

So, I sent of for last 6 years charges and CCA at the same time. Intrum Justitia replied quite quickly that they could not comply and were refering the debt back to RBS

 

In the mean time I have requested that RBS pay back all charges ( £900 ish) and also sent them the CCA request.

 

Looks like some fun in the coming weeks!

 

CCMAN

[slick132]

Hi CCman,

 

Good stuff, and keep us posted.

[ccman]

List of charges arrived from RBS and so I wrote back and asked for the charges to be returned. Recieved a pathetic offer this morning.

 

But, as yet, no reply from my CCA request. Seeing as this could be a far more useful turn of events, should I abandon my charges claim or can you "Have both"?

[TaxedAndConfused]

Are they out of time with the CCA request ?

[jysmystry]

I think I would wait to get the CCA back. Its best i find to get as much info as you can so you can decide the best route.

 

My agenda would primarily be getting the default removed and the lack of an agreement would be extremely helpful in doing so. If they can't produce the agreement and are already inclided to make you some kind of payment this would suggest you are on firm ground. I'd package the default and the bank charges together as one issue and try to secure default removal as part of a reduced settlement which takes into account the £xxx's of bank charges they have applied.

 

If you dont get a fair deal start a claim to recover charges and include the standard arguments for inaccurate default as part of that.

 

Keep us updated though, sounds liek this one could be fun (in a good way).

Edited May 15, 2008 by jysmystry

[ccman]

Are they out of time with the CCA request ?

 

12 days tomorrow

[Truther]

Well this is what i've used

I claim that since you have not provided any proof of claim against me, that i consider your alleged debt fraudulent and non-existent, and you must remove the said debt from any records.

I claim that failure to purge all information regarding the aforementioned debt from the National Credit Bureaux or any other entry that you may have with Experian Ltd, Equifax Europe Ltd without presenting evidence as directed above to certify the validity of the aforementioned debt shall be considered an act of fraud, and may result in criminal prosecution against you.

 

And used a notary to create certified true copies

 

The contents of this post should not be construed as being legal advice

 

peace

 

Truther

[slick132]

Hi CC,

 

Have you put the chgs on to a spreadsheet and used the Site's Prelim Letter.

 

Have you just asked for the chgs back or are you seeking Contractual Interest as well. This will increase the amount you are reclaiming considerably but may make them more stubborn about refunding.

 

How do the chgs compare with the overall debt on the CC a/c.

[ccman]

Hi CC,

 

Have you put the chgs on to a spreadsheet and used the Site's Prelim Letter.

 

Have you just asked for the chgs back or are you seeking Contractual Interest as well. This will increase the amount you are reclaiming considerably but may make them more stubborn about refunding.

 

How do the chgs compare with the overall debt on the CC a/c.

 

I have used the sites prelim letter with interest. Value is about 20% of card balance.

[slick132]

Hi CC,

 

Don't mean to be pedantic but you only claim int't with the Prelim if it's CI.

 

The 8% s.69 int't gets added on when you file your claim at court.

 

So, have you claimed CI with the Prelim?

[ccman]

Yes, I have claimed CI with the prelim

[slick132]

Thats good.

 

Proceed with the chgs reclaim which should reduce the balance owed on the a/c.

 

If they fail to produce the correct response to the CCA request, this leaves the alleged debt legally unenforceable which means you can pay it off in a manner that suits you, have any related Defaults removed from your files and insist that no further charges or interest be added to the a/c.

 

You could also consider negotiating a Full and Final Settlement to close the matter.

 

Wait to see if/how they respond to the CCA request.

[ccman]

 

This is very kind of them I think...... Best ideas for a "try harder folks" letter?

 

Cheers,

 

CCMAN

[slick132]

Hi CCM,

 

If you haven't yet done so, send off your LBA and wait to see what comes back in response to the CCA request.

[ccman]

One LBA coming up

 

thanks,

 

CCman

[ccman]

Well, look whats arrived in the post! This along with a very nice letter explaining everything (I can post it if needed but you can guess the content.) and a set of CURRENT terms and conditions. So the $64000, will it stand up in court and more to the point, will I have to? Ah, the tension.......

 

[slick132]

Hi CCM,

 

I'll ask for expert opinion on the CCA response.

 

We'll get back to you on this.

[ccman]

Thankyou

[2Grumpy]

Is that it or did they send terms & conditions etc as well?

 

My eyes aren't what they used to be (actually one of them is better than it used to be since the op) but I don't see an interest rate on there.

 

It looks more like an application form to me, and not one with all the requisite bits on it to make it enforcable.

 

n.b. I am not the expert that you are waiting for

 

Grumpy

[pt2537]

Nope, as that documents stands it is unenforceable. it does not have the prescribed terms there are not apparent details on how to cancel ,which should also have been supplied

 

and i cant see the address of the creditor on there either which is required although wouldnt affect the enforceability of it

[ccman]

Fantastic news. I would like to use this as a lever to say " so will you settle for 20% seeing as you cannot enforce the agreement?"

 

Any ideas as to the best way to put this?

 

thanks,

 

CCMAN

[slick132]

Bums, I've just posted a reply and the system's dumped it.

 

If this posts ok, I'll do it again.

[slick132]

Right, before you try and negotiate a F&F sett't with them, it would be good to establish that the info provided so far does NOT fulfill their requirement to properly reply to your CCA request.

 

This letter, properly edited to reflect your own circumstances, should do the job. Then you can go on to negotiate, making sure they agree to the removal of any defaults associated with the alleged debt.

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions. It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues.

 

Yours faithfully

[ccman]

Just a large scale general WOW. Thankyou very much

[ccman]

Look what just arrived. A standard response suprise suprise! Whats next folks?

 

Many thanks,

 

CCMAN