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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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can someone PM what the edited bit was cos I am crap with hangman.....any chance of a first letter ;)

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FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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It's relevance is in how much they put in their pocket.

 

Unauthorised use of the overdraft facility of £3 and a charge of £35 is not only unfair, but excessive as well. It's in the loan shark realms of over 1,000%. Even a £70 use claws in equal to 100%, far above any interest rates even in the hardest of times.

 

All this may be true, but how does it make the charge unfair within the meaning of the UTCCR?

 

You can use the UTTCR to determine if a contract term is unfair, but unfair is defined in Regulation 5 (1):

 

A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

 

Examples of such terms are set out in Schedule 2.

 

Regulation 6 (2) says:

 

(2) In so far as it is in plain intelligible language, the assessment of fairness of a term shall not relate-

 

(a) -

 

(b) to the adequacy of the price or remuneration, as against the goods or services supplied in exchange.

 

Next Regulation 8 (1) says:

 

An unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding on the consumer.

 

So, assuming the OFT win the last round in the current legal battle, if the OFT come to assess any particular term they will need to see if it produces a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations. To do this, they will have the examples set out in Schedule 2 to assist them, though they can go beyond the examples. However, what is clear is that they have to show that the terms is intrinsically unfair, not that it is unfair because the charge is high. Regulation 6 (2) seems to confirm that this is the correct approach, as does Regulation 8 (1) which does not allow a fairer provision to be introduced to replace the unfair one.

 

So with respect to any given service, the OFT will have to decide that it is unreasonable for any charge to be made before it can decide that it is unfair. Accordingly, the cost of providing the service is irrelevant and not a matter that the OFT needs to enquire into - at least not for the purposes of the UTCCR.

 

The UTCCR afford the consumer consderable protection, but the one thing they do not do, and expressly exclude from their ambit, is to allow any enquiry as to the price agreed for the service or goods offered.

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That's true but the service has to have been negotiated otherwise it's just an arbitrary term where only 1 party to the contract benefits - remember the banks are dealing with a captive market where's there's little real choice

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can someone PM what the edited bit was cos I am crap with hangman.....any chance of a first letter ;)

 

It was a "z" :eek:

 

Anyway, you're wise enough to insert your own answers.

 

Oh, bypassing the swear filter is in clear breach of forum rules, also.

 

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That's true but the service has to have been negotiated otherwise it's just an arbitrary term where only 1 party to the contract benefits

 

But surely if it is in the terms it has been negotiated.

 

remember the banks are dealing with a captive market where's there's little real choice

 

Now that is what everyone should have been concentrating on to the exclusion of everything else.

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It was a "z" :eek:

 

Anyway, you're wise enough to insert your own answers.

 

Oh, bypassing the swear filter is in clear breach of forum rules, also.

how many letters?

Was the z the first letter? :D

 

apologies but no one is PM'ing me the answer.

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FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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how many letters?

Was the z the first letter? :D

 

apologies but no one is PM'ing me the answer.

 

Who do you think I am, Carol Vorderman?

 

Consonant... Vowel... Vowel... One from the top, please, Carol...

 

:lol:

 

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Who do you think I am, Carol Vorderman?

 

Consonant... Vowel... Vowel... One from the top, please, Carol...

 

:lol:

 

I have no idea what you do in the comfort of your own home:eek:

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FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Apart from dealing with inanimate objects eg. to negotiate the hazards on the road.... negotiation involves discussion with other concerned parties.

I don't necessarily accept that 'take it or leave it' is negotiation.

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Apart from dealing with inanimate objects eg. to negotiate the hazards on the road.... negotiation involves discussion with other concerned parties.

I don't necessarily accept that 'take it or leave it' is negotiation.

 

You have a point, but in practice one does not negotiate every detail of every contract you enter into. That is why we have statutory protection such as the UTCCR. If you sign a contract everything in it is in a sense negotiated, just not individually negotiated. Even "take it or leave it" is still negotiation. Negotiation does not mean getting what you want.

 

Quite separately, if all suppliers are offering you a particular service on a "take it or leave it" basis and all the terms are the same, then you can ask if there is a cartel. Even if you find one, it will not necessarily follow that the terms are unfair within the meaning of the UTCCR.

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You have a point, but in practice one does not negotiate every detail of every contract you enter into. That is why we have statutory protection such as the UTCCR. If you sign a contract everything in it is in a sense negotiated, just not individually negotiated. Even "take it or leave it" is still negotiation. Negotiation does not mean getting what you want.

 

Quite separately, if all suppliers are offering you a particular service on a "take it or leave it" basis and all the terms are the same, then you can ask if there is a cartel. Even if you find one, it will not necessarily follow that the terms are unfair within the meaning of the UTCCR.

 

Does "sign here and here" class as negotiation? ie I want to open an account and they take down your details and print paperwork and say these words? Someone I know recently did just that. Not really negotiation but just instructions ;)

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FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Who do you think I am, Carol Vorderman?

 

Consonant... Vowel... Vowel... One from the top, please, Carol...

 

:lol:

 

ROTFL - did your TV get reclaimed as Countdown has long since had new people in it! :D That'll be Rach(el) then - Clever (mathematician) girl too it seems. She might actually be some help here too! :lol:

Michael

When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is. (Oscar Wilde)

--I like to be helpful wherever possible however I'm not qualified in this field. I do consider carefully anything important (normally from personal experience) however please understand that any actions taken are at your own risk--

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ROTFL - did your TV get reclaimed as Countdown has long since had new people in it! :D That'll be Rach(el) then - Clever (mathematician) girl too it seems. She might actually be some help here too! :lol:

Michael

 

Really? I can't afford to turn my telly on until these Bank charges are repaid, see...

 

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Really? I can't afford to turn my telly on until these Bank charges are repaid, see...

Come off it car, have you not got internet :D

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FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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But surely if it is in the terms it has been negotiated.

 

Hadrian's mate you do make me chuckle sometimes:lol:

 

 

Now that is what everyone should have been concentrating on to the exclusion of everything else.

 

Cartel perhaps?;-)

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We are getting bogged down on what "negotiated" means. It is not really relevant for the point I was trying make. I will try and make the point again by posing it as a question:

 

How do people think that the UTCCR will help them in their fight to recover bank charges?

 

(Please try and avoid answers such as: Bank charges are unfair so they must be covered by the UTCCR.)

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We are getting bogged down on what "negotiated" means. It is not really relevant for the point I was trying make. I will try and make the point again by posing it as a question:

 

How do people think that the UTCCR will help them in their fight to recover bank charges?

 

(Please try and avoid answers such as: Bank charges are unfair so they must be covered by the UTCCR.)

 

I don't believe they will until someone decides the charges are unfair. Yes I know about the judgement, but what is running at the moment is alongside the unfairness, one depends on the other.

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We are getting bogged down on what "negotiated" means. It is not really relevant for the point I was trying make. I will try and make the point again by posing it as a question:

 

How do people think that the UTCCR will help them in their fight to recover bank charges?

 

(Please try and avoid answers such as: Bank charges are unfair so they must be covered by the UTCCR.)

 

"To arrange or settle by discussion and mutual agreement: negotiate a contract". None of which applies between the consumer & the bank

 

As for the UTCCR I don't want to put the cat amongst the pigeons but would rather wait & see the outcome of the HoL - however even if that should fail there are a number of other avenues consumers can follow to seek redress against the lenders & their pernicious charges - However I suggest 1 fight at a time;)

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I don't believe they will until someone decides the charges are unfair. Yes I know about the judgement, but what is running at the moment is alongside the unfairness, one depends on the other.

 

I am afraid I do not follow. Can you please expand?

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"To arrange or settle by discussion and mutual agreement: negotiate a contract". None of which applies between the consumer & the bank

 

As for the UTCCR I don't want to put the cat amongst the pigeons but would rather wait & see the outcome of the HoL - however even if that should fail there are a number of other avenues consumers can follow to seek redress against the lenders & their pernicious charges - However I suggest 1 fight at a time;)

 

Well if the end result was in favour of the banks (and others) I think the old boxing gloves could be shelved. We would all have felt 'cheated' and it would show the old adage of 'law for one and law for others'. That alone would be quite shameful in this day and age.

 

Reminds me having read much from people here of my phone call with Barclaycard only this morning. Thank you so much sincerely for much input and knowledge otherwise I for one would have no hope! Apologies for this being off topic but to make us all smile with my humour included;

My call was simple as they charged me £12 for not making minimum payment and £12 for going over limit. The email I received to my online message was usual 'brush over tactics' so it deserved voice to voice chat. The lady was so nice till I asked her the constituents of the £12 charges. In the end she refused to talk further passing me to her supervisor - this was one of those days I felt 'on form'!

I started to ask her about the charges and she initially stated that the OFT had 'demanded' those charges. I replied that she was totally wrong and in fact the OFT had suggested a maximum of that charge but for terms of compeditiveness they should not all charge the same. She then apologised havig given me false information and decided to refund the minimum payment charge thinking wrongly that I'd go away. The fact that HSBC used to pay B/C within 2 hours has now changed I spotted to 'No guarantee when' so I asked her about this. Charging me £12 for £9.02 seemed rather unfair. As I plodded on I now realised I had the upper hand and all of a sudden she announced that that £12 charge would be refunded. Both chages being refunded 'this time only as a gesture of goodwill' which I also decided to question. I stated that I did not consider this to be 'one time only' and they should advise their customers that the amount left to spend is in fact false because it does not mention interest. This being false gave attempted to make people spend more to attract unfair penalties.I had to smile as further apologies came as we said goodbye.

Michael

When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is. (Oscar Wilde)

--I like to be helpful wherever possible however I'm not qualified in this field. I do consider carefully anything important (normally from personal experience) however please understand that any actions taken are at your own risk--

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Well if the end result was in favour of the banks (and others) I think the old boxing gloves could be shelved. We would all have felt 'cheated' and it would show the old adage of 'law for one and law for others'. That alone would be quite shameful in this day and age.

 

Reminds me having read much from people here of my phone call with Barclaycard only this morning. Thank you so much sincerely for much input and knowledge otherwise I for one would have no hope! Apologies for this being off topic but to make us all smile with my humour included;

My call was simple as they charged me £12 for not making minimum payment and £12 for going over limit. The email I received to my online message was usual 'brush over tactics' so it deserved voice to voice chat. The lady was so nice till I asked her the constituents of the £12 charges. In the end she refused to talk further passing me to her supervisor - this was one of those days I felt 'on form'!

I started to ask her about the charges and she initially stated that the OFT had 'demanded' those charges. I replied that she was totally wrong and in fact the OFT had suggested a maximum of that charge but for terms of compeditiveness they should not all charge the same. She then apologised havig given me false information and decided to refund the minimum payment charge thinking wrongly that I'd go away. The fact that HSBC used to pay B/C within 2 hours has now changed I spotted to 'No guarantee when' so I asked her about this. Charging me £12 for £9.02 seemed rather unfair. As I plodded on I now realised I had the upper hand and all of a sudden she announced that that £12 charge would be refunded. Both chages being refunded 'this time only as a gesture of goodwill' which I also decided to question. I stated that I did not consider this to be 'one time only' and they should advise their customers that the amount left to spend is in fact false because it does not mention interest. This being false gave attempted to make people spend more to attract unfair penalties.I had to smile as further apologies came as we said goodbye.

Michael

 

 

There will be other avenues to follow should the consumer 'lose' this time around The fight would be far from over:)

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