Rossendales

[Su0906]

Hi

 

Has anyone else had the situation where Rossendales have said that they have sent letter after letter and you have not received them.

 

I am in a situation where Rossendales have two liability orders. They have said that they have now written to me on at least four occasions and have provided the dates - I have not received any of these letters.

 

Yesterday I came home to another bailiff letter chasing for a liability order obtained in Jan 08 with a notice of seizure. I have received absolutely no correspondence prior to this that Rossendales are dealing with this debt and no letter providing me with 14 days notice of a bailiffs attendance to seize.

 

I am beginning to suspect that Rossendales are making these letters up and not actually posting them!! I advised the bailiff over the phone of this and I have to say for once this particular bailiff was very nice and helpful and I have to say he was dismayed at Rossendales and was not doing the job by choice. He in fact commented that he would not ever give Rossendales a reference which says it all.

 

I have advised Rossendales if necessary I will swear an affidavit to the effect that I have not received any correspondence.

 

Has this happened to anyone else.

[tiglet]

Notice of seizure? Have you signed a WPO?

[Su0906]

Absolutely not - let me have guess, have they used the wrong form?

[tiglet]

So they have given you a notice to seize goods when you have not signed a walking possession order? Is this for council tax?

[Su0906]

It is, although I do not think the bailiff intend to pursue it after I informed him that I had absolutely no correspondence from Rossendales giving me 14 days notice of a bailiff's visit, he understood that he was at risk of losing some of his bond for not checking this information if I made a complaint. He also acknowledged that in this case it was probably an unlawful levy.

 

I really want to find out if others have been told by Rossendales that letters have been sent out that they haven't received. It seems strange that I haven't received any of the approximately 7/8 letters Rossendales say they sent!!!! I smell a rat.

[tiglet]

I do too - I would report Rossendale's to the council - they are responsible for the actions of the bailiffs, after all.

[BellaGoth]

It seems a common theme amongst certain bailiff companys (Rossendales being one of them) to claim to have sent countless numbers of letters out, but the people who were supposed to have received them never have.

[Su0906]

It is completely frustrating as it is one rule for us and one for them.

 

If we want to prove we sent a letter we have to send it recorded delivery. but if they send a letter we just have to take their word for it. Anybody got any suggestions how to deal with this?

[tiglet]

Contact the council, as suggested.

 

They also cannot charge you for letters sent - only bailiffs first and second visits and then, if there is a WPO, attendance to remove goods and van hire.

[Karen W]

Hi Tiglet, talking of Rossendales, I had the same sort of situation, they said that they sent letter after letter in respect council tax debt - I didn't pay this straightaway and they added charge after charge on top for letters, they added for visits and also for van removal costs, even though no van was ever seen. I did eventually pay all of this are they allowed to add for van removal costs if no walking possession agreement has been signed, and if so could I go back to them to try and get this charge back?

[tiglet]

No, they cannot charge if no WPA was agreed.

 

I would suggest you write to them and ask for a full breakdown of costs and then post back so we can advise further.

[jmp1]

I've bee corresponding with Bristol City Council as I thought we had an agreement in place to repay outstanding Council Tax. However their letter to me date a few days ago said that they had put the account in the hands of their Baliffs - Rossendales.

 

I just put their name into Google and came up with an old thread that suggested that their tactics were a little extreme (bullying and threatening behavour). Does anyone know if they still do this?

 

I'm still trying to go directly with the Council and sort this out, and i've asked them to suspend any further action until they have. Should i copy this to Rossendales, or do you think this would alert them early?

 

Any helpful advice would be appreciated. By the way their is an iron garden gate that they can't get through unless I let them in, should I not let them anywhere near our front door, if they do turn up?

[Su0906]

Hi, back again after a couple of months of still getting nowhere with the council and Rossendales they are still sending letter after letter. Can any one clarify with absolute legal certainty (not just opinions or probablies) the following points:

 

1. Can the bailiffs charge for a van attendance and associated fees if no levy has previously been made?

 

2. Can the council tax insist on higher repayments as council tax is a priority debt if you are paying payments to credit cards etc. I want to avoid paying less to my cards etc as this will obviously damage my credit rating as I will be in breach of the credit agreements if they take lower payments.

 

3. Can the bailiffs re-attend a property a 1 year later of the first attendance with no corresponence in between - is there any time frame they are regulated by?

 

4. Is the magistrates court liability order regarded as the same required notice of bailiffs attendance with van giving 14 days notice under Schedule 5?

 

5. If so, does the liability notice have to provide a break down of fees under Schedule 5 (and as stated in Section 5) to be legal? (the liability order itself does not include this information).

 

I could really do with clarification on these points as I am preparing a case for unlawful charges and unprofessional behaviour to go to the mags court under the complaints procedure for the bailiffs bond.

[Su0906]

In addition the particular charming bailiff I have had dealings with was named in last weeks Eastbourne Herald (just google rossendales and eastbourne herald for article). If anyone else has had problems and fancies make a joint complaint to the mags court to have his certificate removed then send me a private message.

[WWOW]

Hi, back again after a couple of months of still getting nowhere with the council and Rossendales they are still sending letter after letter. Can any one clarify with absolute legal certainty (not just opinions or probablies) the following points:

 

Then you should speak to a solicitor...

 

1. Can the bailiffs charge for a van attendance and associated fees if no levy has previously been made?

 

No. The law doesn't prescribe any such fee as a 'van fee'.

 

2. Can the council tax insist on higher repayments as council tax is a priority debt if you are paying payments to credit cards etc.

 

Yes. Section 21© Consumer Credit Act 1974. The council is an authority so it doesn't need to be licensed to charge a fee for processing a credit transaction between a lender (card issuer) and a borrower (card holder) .

 

I want to avoid paying less to my cards etc as this will obviously damage my credit rating as I will be in breach of the credit agreements if they take lower payments.

 

Offer the council a lower amount each month.

 

3. Can the bailiffs re-attend a property a 1 year later of the first attendance with no corresponence in between - is there any time frame they are regulated by?

 

I THINK it's 90 days because a Liability Order must be executed by that time limit.

 

4. Is the magistrates court liability order regarded as the same required notice of bailiffs attendance with van giving 14 days notice under Schedule 5?

 

 

5. If so, does the liability notice have to provide a break down of fees under Schedule 5 (and as stated in Section 5) to be legal? (the liability order itself does not include this information).

 

No.

 

I could really do with clarification on these points as I am preparing a case for unlawful charges and unprofessional behaviour to go to the mags court under the complaints procedure for the bailiffs bond.

 

To make an official complaint against a bailiff you complete a Form 4: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf

[Su0906]

Hi, Thanks for the response.

 

The ironic thing is that both myself and my husband work for a law firm but don't want to get them involved until we have to just for personal reasons - but will if we have too!

 

When I referred to van fees what I meant is that the bailiffs turned up a year later than their first visit with a van - no previous levy had been made and have charged £150.00 for this visit. Cany they do this without a levy and a year on.

 

Also you replied no to my question 5 but do you know the answer to my question 4.

 

Cheers.

[Su0906]

Also in respect of my offer of payments I have offered £50.00 per month but am paying approximately £250.00 per month to unsecured lenders and the council tax office say I must renegotiate with the unsecured lenders and pay less to them and more to the council office and this is what I mean by having a negative effect on my credit rating for breach of their contracts. Is this correct?

[Fair-Parking]

Su0906 - I keep saying this on posts, but whatever is written on your liability order is ALL what you owe. No more. There is no provision for bailiffs fees of any description. Pay off the the amount on the liability order (If you don't have it the amount will be written in a letter from the council, advising you of their intention to apply for a liability order) and that is it. Job done, Rossendales are history. Don't bother with them

[Su0906]

Thanks for that - I am surprised the liability order makes no reference to costs as is usual in the county court for enforcement of the debt but it seems you are correct. The council did tell me though that costs were included in the order is there any way of getting absolute clarification as if this is correct I certainly won't waste any more time on it and will be very relieved as it is only the costs I am disputing.

[Su0906]

To Fair-Parking

 

I have done some digging now and really unfortunately I think you are wrong that there is no provision in the liability order to pay bailiff's costs.

 

Have a look at Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 which govern liability orders. In particular I refer you to Section 45 (1) and (2) which specifically refers to costs incurred with distress under Schedule 5 (to the layman bailiff's costs).

 

Let me know what you think as obviously you don't want to be giving out incorrect information to people as you have said you have advised many that bailiff costs are not recoverable - are you sure??? I really hope I'm wrong and your right.

[Fair-Parking]

Paras 33, 34 35 and 36 are more relevant with 33 (1) being specific on the fact that the authority must account for 'every amount in respect of which the authority is to make the application'.

 

Para 45 refers to charges and levy fees being made after goods have been sold with no reference to visits that never led to a levy.

 

More importantly none of the paragraphs make any provision to private bailiffs (Rossendales) or appointed agents. Indeed para 45 2-3 refers to the authority taking walking possession.

 

The reality of this being that once the amount on the liability order is paid, there's nowhere for bailiffs to go.

[Su0906]

This is a point I would love to get legal interpretation of. I would think though even if bailiff costs can not be reclaimed without a sucessful levy and sale of items the term "authority" would be interpreted by a Judge as meaning their agents as well.

 

Do you know of any instances where the council have been sucessful in enforcing bailiff fees once their liability has been settled. Is there any legal precedent for this.

[Fair-Parking]

No I haven't but I do know of many instances where bailiffs ceased to pursue the amount, including two of the more well known firms that are consistently mentioned on this forum.

 

I'm sure that if they thought that there was any chance of being paid they would continue to harass and bully.

 

May I suggest you pay the council and then see what happens.

[pleaseHelpMeNow]

I have a problem with Rossendales too - they have collected £1000 from me and I refused to pay any more until they clarified the charges (over 250). They have now passed it back to the council and they have only been passed £700 ish of the money I paid to rossendales. Can they charge that much for collection of council tax?