Court Officer Reveals All

[CourtOfficerSpeaks]

Hi all

 

After recently reading a post on UK Debt, there seems to be a lot of questions about High Court officers, enforcement and writs. Their rights and how you stand with them

 

 

P.s - questions can be about - debt, ccj's, bailiffs, HCEO's, high court and county courts, rights of entry, writ of possesions etc.

 

 

COS.

[Blossomandebony]

Hi, Cos,

 

I'm in the process of enforcing a default judgement on a credit card company. In case they don't play ball with the county court bailiffs, would it be adviseable to take it a step further and get it enforced by HC bailiffs?

 

If so, how do you do it? How much does it cost? What is the chance of success?

 

Lots of questions, I know(!) but I'd be grateful for any info, cheers.

 

BAE

[CourtOfficerSpeaks]

Deleted

[Blossomandebony]

Thanks!

 

BAE

[tomterm8]

What rights of entry does a high court baliff have on properties belonging to someone other that the debtor?

[CourtOfficerSpeaks]

hi Tomterm,

 

Your answer is - NONE at all. They're allowed to use big words, such as "enforce the warrant" at your address, and "please be in to meet us".

 

No one, whether it be courts, debt companies, bailiffs or even us, the officers can enter your house without "peaceful admittance".

 

I say again NO ONE (other than police with a search warrant)

 

Always refuse any bailiffs entry to the address.

 

If however, you have previously let them into your house, then technically they can break-in again to gain access to the goods. But depending on your debts, its usually not cost effective to break back into a private house, plus you need a specific court order which takes a while!

 

Remember - best way to avoid paying in this case is to get a "Formal Letter of claim" to the officers.

 

Put them on notice that "SO & SO" owns the goods at the address and you have no assets there. Once served with this notice, they'll be little more they can do.

 

NOTE - here i am only referring to civil debts. Matters such as council tax and car fines can result in far more firmer response!

 

 

Hope that helps

 

COS

[tomterm8]

Thanks.

[rory32]

however i am willing to help you on both sides of the coin. Avoiding your debts and paying your debts.

Just so that you are aware, as you are a new user of this site, CAG does not endorse debt avoidance. What it does endorse is people being aware of what rights they have under the law and enforcing those rights.

[Guest 10110001]

Just so that you are aware, as you are a new user of this site, CAG does not endorse debt avoidance.

 

I think you mean debt evasion - getting out of paying a lawful debt.

 

Debt avoidance means not incurring a debt in the first place.

 

Ditto tax avoidance - move to Dubai for 12 months, and tax evasion - hide your earnings.

[tonycee]

 

Feel free to post away, i will answer when i can.

 

.

 

Could you comment on THIS please.

[chris600uk]

How about the Costas, it's closer, cheaper, and you're still in the EU:)

[tomtubby]

Court Officer.

 

Welcome to Consumer Action and thank you for offering advice.

 

As our business operates exclusively to provide bailiff advice to the public, it is such a coincidence that you have posted. I say this because our main enquiries are from the public after their vehicle has been clamped or removed and queries of course when a bailiff is enforcing a Liability Order for unpaid Council Tax.

 

We have received just a handful of queries about High Court Enforcement......until this week when we received 9 queries in just 2 days !!!

 

I am assuming that creditors want their CCJ's enforced quickly and are going the High Court Enforcement route. Can I therefore ask a few questions that may help people looking at this thread:

 

You say that HCEO have more power than County Court bailiffs, can you explain what these are?

 

Do HCEO's have to be certificated, if not, why?

 

How do you earn your money? I ask this because the Statutory Fee scale (which is not that easy to find provides for very modest charges only?

 

You say that that success rate is low for private homes....why is this?

 

Do you accept payment arrangement?

 

Do you have to get the agreement of the creditor to accept arrangements?

 

How can the debtor challenge your fees or complain ?

 

Thanking you in advance.

[rippedoffagain]

Subscribing.

[CourtOfficerSpeaks]

Court Officer.

 

We have received just a handful of queries about High Court Enforcement......until this week when we received 9 queries in just 2 days !!!

That shocks me, the amount of writs we have is enormous.

 

I am assuming that creditors want their CCJ's enforced quickly and are going the High Court Enforcement route. Can I therefore ask a few questions that may help people looking at this thread: You say that HCEO have more power than County Court bailiffs, can you explain what these are?

To be honest there isn't a lot in it, i don't think county court bailiffs can break into commercial premises as easily as we can, plus they can't handle debts over certain amounts.. We tend to deal solely with larger commercial debts. Obviously this used to be called the Sheriff, now they're referred to as HCEO's. County Courts are the sort who are more inclined to take your toaster to pay for your £60 tesco bill or something. Since the market changed and we can now enforce any debt in england and wales, we have had lots more private houses now. Everything from unpaid store cards, to larger unsecured personal loans.

 

Do HCEO's have to be certificated, if not, why?

In all honesty i don't know. We have a certain number of management staff who carry the "High Court Enforcement Officer" certificate and that gives them the right to do it, think it requires and exam. One of the people is nearly 70 and they are still allowed to enforce writs (not that they do!). However, we have about 50 officers around the country and i dont think any of them have sat any exams, merely got a badge from our IT guy?! Whether this means they have no rights, i doubt it. Somewhere along the line they'd simply say "I represent Joe Bloggs" etc etc. I'm unsure on your rights as a person against a man that carries a badge in someone else's name?!

 

How do you earn your money? I ask this because the Statutory Fee scale (which is not that easy to find provides for very modest charges only?

Fees are scaled by the government, we can't fix them in anyway, however some HCEO's "milk" the fee scale and try to drain every penny out of everyone. Our company, in fairness are quite...well....fair! We usually chase about 10% of the debt for our selves. If it is unsuccesful, we charge about £80 for the "abortive" writ. You'll find them on google. There's certain rules like "10% of the first £100" of valuation and £2.50 standard for all debts. Valuation depends on levy, we will always charge full fees when ever we get a debt in full. Usually the solicitors pay this if they recieve the payment themselves. Or we deduct our fees prior to sending the cheque to the solicitors. Levying is very important in the HCEO's work. It means we can (if the job is abortive) still technically charge full fees to the claimants. Not that we do very often as we like to keep solicitors happy for obvious reasons!! Where as your cowboy HCEO firms (naming no names!) will levy on even your plant pot or next doors car. Its nothing to do with scaring you; that bit, it's to do with the fee scale. When we recieve a debt at our company personally, another £100 is added on by the courts as the "transfer fee". The defendant inevitably pays this. Then you have interest at 8% pa again set by court. All we keep is our fees which are added on after interest and your £100 and your court costs are added on. So if this all comes to £1000. We'll chase you for £1100 and keep £100.

 

You say that that success rate is low for private homes....why is this?

a few reasons i think, firstly we can't break in unless we've levied. We have 2 letters - a break in letter and a non break in letter. One goes to private houses and one goes to businesses and commercial premises. If we don't get response from a business, we'll keep trying and "threaten" that we're going to break-in. 8 out of 10 times this works and the owner pays when we warn of the locksmith and police, this usually scares them even more. 2 of out of 10 people call our bluff and say "go ahead - break in it's empty!" i can tell you when anyone has said this, we've always referred it back to the solicitors to ask if they want us to break in and i have seen very few come back, stump up the cash and say yes. They don't do this as they don't know whats behind the door. Unless you can see things in there, or we know form another source. Then we may arrange a locksmith and go take a look. Now a private house, you'd need an act of god if you were try and break in even if you had levied. Be too costly, and for what a toaster and tv!? This is what county court bailiffs do not us. People get very scared thinking we're coming as our letters warn of "charges" and "goods" and "chattels". All big words thats all. Believe it or not, we sometimes will get a letter from a person (usually the debtor!) saying "doesn't live here, return to sender". And that's it! We get rid of the job!!! I can honestly say most people who we chase for money are the people who have called us! if the don't respond we can't do anthing but send letters. We don't know who they are from adam. i.e Trying to find a Mr Singh in London, too costly, too much time, just not worth it. Our company is not even subscribed to an electoral role web site!

 

Do you accept payment arrangement?

Yes, aslong as it's reasonable. When people bounce cheques we tell them we are removing their arrangement but we never do as long as they pay it on a debit card etc from then on (Cleared funds). Sometimes we do have to accept certain poor offers from debt companies (e.g £3/w) which the claimants accept purely out of desperation. If there is one group of companies i hate - it's debt companies like IVA advice lines, don't even get me started on them. Rubbish, as are the CAB. Rubbish. I'll say more about that if i need to.

 

Do you have to get the agreement of the creditor to accept arrangements?

Yes, we seek the first payment from the debtor, then write to the claimants' sols.

 

How can the debtor challenge your fees or complain ?

-Write to the DCA who regulates us (now called Ministries of Justice!)

 

-Write to the MD of our company.

 

-Write to the HCEOA

 

-Apply to county courts for set aside and stay of writ. County courts also annoy us, because they ALWAYS advise EVERYONE to apply to set the judgement aside. This makes the person think they're OK and we technically can come along and move your goods before you hearing date aslong as you don't have a stay of execution from a judge, county court idiots don't know this so they just tell you not to worry and go home.

 

We use this as a scaring tactic to make them hurry the courts along with their application, we tell them we'll sell their items before the judgement is set aside but we never would. But once they ASJA we consider it a dead duck because the county courts have almost advised them on how to prevent us doing our job!"

 

 

Hope that helps a little more.

 

COS

[tomtubby]

Excellent......many thanks.

[CourtOfficerSpeaks]

Can i just apologise here to mods etc...

 

I don't condone debt avoidance, or anything like that. However the system i work in, i feel is unfair and there is a lot of "inhouse" law and rules that may affect what decisions you take. Therefore my advice is impartial. It comes from "inside the sheriffs office" thats all. I merely telling you what you probably didn't know. Someone's choice to avoid debt is their own. I am not one to judge.

 

My apols anyway.

[tomterm8]

How do you think the new tribunals and enforcement act will affect your powers?

[CourtOfficerSpeaks]

How dya mean? What act? (Bearing in mind i'm not a solicitor!)

[tomterm8]

Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 - Ministry of Justice

[42man]

Makes an interesting read Tom...I should be able to finish it by Christmas 2010 !!!

[madmax1973]

Hi all !

 

In English, can anyone tell me what a "writ" is ? and also "Walking Possession"

 

All i know is that sherforce is charging me approx £1300 for one visit to my door to ask me for an agreement to pay back the debt.

 

The breadown said:

 

"valuation fee".... what have they valued ?

"walking Possession fee" ??

"Attendance fees"

"Financial management fees"

"Admin fees"

"seizure fees"

"Milage incurred"

"Percentage of amount recoverd"

"interest at 8%"

Plus VAT at the end of all this.

 

I had one visit, did not let them into my house, i made him stand at the bottom of my driveway while i spoke to him and agreed £50 per week. I then got a breakdown of charges (after National Debt Line advised me) to find out how the debt was so high. (it was £1800) now it is over £3000. But i am a bit.. well, thick, I have read and read all the HCEO regulations and fees but i cant understand the lingo !

 

Now they are saying that if i dont pay before the 12 months are up, they will take it back to court and charge me all over again. They have had £2166 to date. I cannot pay the rest in the given time (1/4/08) How do i stand ? Fees and all !

[CourtOfficerSpeaks]

Fees should be about 10% of the debt, plus interest @ 8% pa. (In a normal case)

 

in this case, It's Sherforce so there will probably be fees that will need to be paid that not all companies charge.

 

After 12 months, they won't "charge you all over again" but the "legal power" of the writ runs out after 12 months, therefore they have to send it back to the solicitors to be re-newed or extended by courts etc.

 

You will probably get another £100 quid added on (transfer fee), interest stays from date of judgement, fee recalculated; they will "pocket" their fees and open a new job. However, credited against the new balance, will be your payments sent onto the solicitors in the previous 12 months.

 

If you can though, try and pay it in 12 months.

 

Sometimes deals can be worked out, but it depends on which solicitor is instructing Sherforce, if its a good customer of theirs. Ring the solicitors direct, make a sensible offer, on the basis that they wipe off the enforcement fees. If they agree, you pay what you've agreed and Sherforce charge the solicitors an abortive fee.

 

A writ, is a 'transferred up' CCJ basically. Sherforce to be fair through AREN'T charging you £1300 for ONE visit. These are the fees as they were added on when the writ arrived. They should only really increase now with following...

 

* Interest - usually added on daily

*about 30p a day for Sherforce personally

*Around £50 for a visit to the house (should you fail to pay etc). Although firms can charge upto £300 if they like, just most don't!

 

A walking possesion, without getting complicated is just an old document (the old Sheriff days) that basically says that you won't dispose of your assets if we agree not to take them then and there. Years ago it was common practice for Sherrifs to arrive and start moving goods then and there!

 

If they're a valuation, they have probably levied on something, i.e. next doors car etc.

 

You can ask for a breakdown of the fees if you like it can be hard to understand though as they won't probably send an explanation with it.

 

As for not letting them in, DON'T. We cannot force entry to a private house.

[robin9342]

I'm puzzled. How is it that Sherforce are allowed to add fees or charges that "not all companies charge"? Surely they are bound by the same laws as all other HCEOs? ;

The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004

 

"Although firms can charge upto £300 if they like, just most don't!"

 

No they can't! The maximum is £50 (see above link)

[CourtOfficerSpeaks]

Well robin9342, i can see your opinion of Sherforce must be rosier than mine.

 

Also (it's my fault, i keep failing to explain!) - £300 can be charged for a "contractor visit". i.e vans with removal men. An officer visit, on his own; yes would probably be £50 or so.

Ey, i'm just telling it how it is

[tonycee]

Well robin9342, i can see your opinion of Sherforce must be rosier than mine. the reason i know the fees are always extortionate is because i also have a "contact" in the High Court Officers Association and guess what.....all the complaints are mainly about Sherforce and their fees.

 

So how do we stop his extortion.?

 

£300 can be charged for a "contractor visit". i.e vans with removal men.

Is this after levy, or just because they want to make some money.

 

 

An officer visit, on his own; yes would probably be £50 or so. But trust me, i see it, and i see all the complaints. It's Sherforce this, sherforce that.

 

I trust you and am grateful for your help.

 

Help me put a stop to Sherforce.