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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

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Jysmystry v Optical Express


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Thought I'd keep my reply short...

Dear Sirs,

 

I refer to your letter dated 10 March 2008 which I received today and which you entitle “OVERDUE ACCOUNT” (again!)

Ref: Final CC/ 52590113 / contact lenses.

Please check my letter to you dated 23/2 and your reply to me dated 29/2 ref 002939 to find out why your letter is in breach of OFT guidelines. You may also wish to google SAR to find out what it means.

Kindest Regards

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hahah we got the same letter :)

 

The only difference was that yours said "Overdue Account" and mine said "final Demand".

 

I'm rather upset though that your letter was handle by a customer care manager! I only got slightly illiterate Lyndsey :(

 

wonder who will get a reply first?

************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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well its that Ar$e from elbow contition again here. What do u think SP?

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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Could it be that the sender of the latest final demand didn't notice that his colleague was 'investigating'?

 

Perhaps he needs his eyes testing...

 

 

lol, he should have gone to specsavers

************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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lol this company are just making me laugh.

 

aybe that all need to go to specsavers.

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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We don't have to wait long and Lyndsay has really excelled herself this time. As jysmystry says she really is unarmed.

As he also says she replies pretty fast. This letter is dated 14th March and it arrived today 14th March. Miraculous!

 

optical3.gif

 

I don't know where to start.

1) If the letter of 7th Dec was in response to my request for more detail, why did they just send me a balance? (Actually it wasn't. It was an apology for getting the customer id wrong)

2) I assure you I had written & phoned quite a bit 'previously and after'

 

3) I love the fact that, Inexplicably, £29.99 rises to £59.98 in the course of the letter.

 

4) The summary suggests they owe me money?

I was paying them monthly for a monthly supply of 30 disposable lenses.

(I dispute I paid them in March as I closed the account in Feb 2004) From what Lyndsay says they were only shipping them every 52 days on average. According to this I paid 6 times for 4 dispatches and failed to pay a 7th and 8th payment.

 

5) There were no lenses shipped to me in March 2004. Had there been and had their debit request been refused by my bank it's pretty certain that they would have notified me prior to October 2007.

 

6) The letter she's responding to was an SAR.

They have 20 days.

 

Shooting fish in a barrel?

Dusty.

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Im ever so slightly drunk right now so things might be slightly better in my head than reality but this letter has made me very happy. Im excited to receive my exact same copy in the post tomorrow.

 

I think dusty we need to simply decide together on one thing. Do we seek to resolve their inevitable non-complience through the information comissioner or the courts?

 

I really want it to be the courts but will that look bad for us if we miss out the nformation comissioner?

 

I might be tempted to simply ignore lyndsey and wait for the summons. Instant absolute defense and counter claim with costs.

 

Is it really worth £60 lyndsey?

 

Bet it would be a JBD too haha

************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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Jysmystry- Equally pleased to hear you're slightly drunk. I promise you it reads just as good in the morning.

Just to add insult to injury I went to OE website and the said contact lenses ONLY come in boxes of 30 and cost £65 for 3 boxes - so current price per box £21.67.

If they were only sending me 7 a year (as they claim) I was paying £51.29 a box.

 

When Lyndsey says 'Our opening are Monday...' Is she referring to when I'm allowed to 'contact her in writing' ?

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Now Im sober i'm still just as pleased by this letter. In the cold light of day I am both stunned and appauled by the number and magnitude of the holes to be picked in it.

 

None the less I take great offence at ScarletPimpernel's quoting blackadder like that! Clearly blackadder was talking about Baldrick when using that phrase and so presumably you are attempting to liken our Lydnsey to Baldrick!! As we all know Baldrick frequently came up with "a cunning plan" suggesting he did, in his own unique way, THINK and engage some form of brain activity in going about his daily life. As such the difference between Lyndsey and Baldrick is vast, he is clearly her mental superior and there can be no comparison drawn between them!

 

Anyhoo's, the main reason i like this letter is that, however hard lyndsey tries the numbers just don't add up. This was the exact point of my seeking clarity in my case and this just compounds the concern i have for their claim i owe them whatever magical figure they saw on sesame street the morning they wrote their first letter to me.

 

I reckon we are on the higher ground here bud, they can't do anything (without repercussions for them) until they have released the info. I'm still thinking about whether they will go away if i ignore them now that i know im safe to do so or whether i should push the issue.

 

I guess I'll see what my letter says when it arrives and decide from there as we sent very different responses. I expect a similar display of ignorance and unjustified assertins as this though so in the meantime ill be reading up on enforcing SAR's and the funnest remedy for non-complience :)

************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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None the less I take great offence at ScarletPimpernel's quoting blackadder like that! Clearly blackadder was talking about Baldrick when using that phrase and so presumably you are attempting to liken our Lydnsey to Baldrick!!

 

Blackadder was talking about Lord Percy. :p

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ahh, in that case the similarity is startling :)

************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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I should have headed the following FINAL RESPONSE. If they make an offer (which I doubt) I'll tell them they've got to cough up to jysmystry as well (or he'll tell).

J: Is your CID reference different to your CC reference? Just that on my first call to them, they told me the letter was 'in error' and to disregard it. Since I don't tape my phone calls I pursued the fact that it was addressed to me at my address and the 'error' was quickly discovered to be an 'error'

Dear Lyndsey,

 

I refer to your letter dated 14 March 2008 which I received on 14th March 2008.

Ref: CID 52624625 / contact lenses.

Thankyou for taking the time to offer up an interim response to my request by letter of 23rd Feb. I trust the requests made in that letter are being dealt with separately and are not your dept. You must inform me if there is a charge for this service.

Although the figures submitted in your letter relating to payment dates cannot be held to be reliable, they certainly do not hold up your theory that I have an outstanding balance of £29.99 (page 1) or even £59.98 (page 2).

If they are reliable, then I was paying for 30 lenses 12 times a year and you were dispatching 30 lenses 7 times a year. Over 2 years that would equate to an overcharge of £300 + approx £190 (if you assume 8% interest over 6 years)

Since I am not the only customer currently being harassed by Optical Express for non-existent arrears, I can only assume I would not have been the only customer being cheated in this way.

I would be grateful if you would show your findings to a senior member of the management team. If true, then a court case could open the floodgates for 100s of similar claims so I would expect an offer that covers the debt with interest and acceptable compensation for the harassment I have been subjected to since October 2007.

This does not in any way relieve you of the responsibility of responding to the requests made in my letter dated 23/2/2008.

Kindest Regards

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they certainly do not hold up your theory that I have an outstanding balance of £29.99 (page 1) or even £59.98 (page 2)

 

I was drinking coffee when i read this! It nearly came out my nose when i was trying not to laugh!

************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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OMG. You're right. We're not allowed to laugh.

Last year someone else with discalcula won an out of court settlement from Barclays for wrongly granting him a loan of £20,100 as they failed to inform him about the repayments in a format he could understand.

 

Which reminds me...I sent my brother a link to this thread and he sent back this succinct reply.

 

OE NCM QED

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yes it is part of the DDA that things need to be made clear to ppl with anytype of disability and in a format that there disability allows them to understand

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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Not 100% true. The disability must affect their day to day living and section 21 allows that support is reasonable.

If, in pursuit of financial gain, people start to argue that not knowing their arse from their elbow is a disability then it's abusing the act.

As for Barclays; NOT giving the guy a loan would have been an offence as well. My mum would find that funny and she has every impairment listed in DDA Schedule 1 S4 (1) a-h. I'm not knocking the act, just its misuse.

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yes but if it is a disability that apperase on the act like deafness or blindness then they have to povide the info in a formatt that is in a format they can understand.

 

You would not expect a blind person to be able to read a letter would you?

OFT debt collection guidance

 

Please remember the only stupid question is the one you dont ask so dont worry about asking the stupid questions.

 

Essex girl in pc world looking 4 curtains 4 her pc,the assistant says u dont need curtains 4 a computer!!Essex girl says,''HELLOOO!! i,ve got WINDOWS!!'.

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Well, Its been 45 days today so they have made a boo-boo.

 

I have done a bit of reading and I'm not going to bother with the Information Commissioners Office, I'm going to go through the courts and get an Order forcing compliance.

 

This is a bit more of an aggressive approach and i'm aware of that but the Information Commissioners Office will simply consider whether or not to write to them then "work with them" to help them correct their proceedures. I have no interest in helping them with their proceedures, I want the info and court will be the quicker option. The Information Commissioners Office also suggest this is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.

 

I do intend to recover my expenses as even though have not been considerable they have taken up my money by neglecting their responsibilities and forcing me to keep writing to them, they have stressed me out and they have wasted my evenings researching.

 

I'm off to the court today to speak to them to see if they are likely to accept it (as there are issues about whethers its small claims, fast track etc) and i'll be claiming specific performance but attempting to avoid the Part 8 Proceedure. It should be simple enough.

 

My LBA giving them 14 days to comply will be going out after the bank hols and i'll post a copy on here for the record. I'm sure the LBA will sort things out in any case and if not i'll enjoy the learning experience of my first court appearence (outside of work) which will be fun on its own.

************************

 

DCA Theats: Jystmystry V's Wescot - I Win (link)

Default Removal: Jystmystry V's NatWest - In Progress (link)

General Debt - Jysmystry v's Optical Express (link)

 

You can run but you'll just die tired

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