Drakes have now clamped my car - What next

[s.dzimba]

Following this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs/127900-drakes-bailifs-magistrate-court.html

 

today i woke up to a notice of distress from drakes.

 

They have clamped my car and the debt for TV Licence was £225 plus £50 bailiffs fees and £175 for attendance. Total = £450

 

I notice in one reply to my post last night that i can request to pay it for up to 90days if i cant afford it but I am going nowhere with that.

 

I rung drakes office and they are not interested in speaking to me and they keep refering me to the bailiff. I have tried explaining the 90days thing but they just are not interested.

 

I have spoken to the bailiffs who is just worse and all he tells me is he needs the money by 4pm today otherwise my car would be taken and i would incuir storage charges.

 

I have rung the Court services to say this and that the bailiff is refusing to accept payments and the have said there is nothing they can do unless the debt is returned back to them.

 

Please advise me now what i need to do now

[tomtubby]

I have responded to you via pm so that you can let me know the name of the bailiff that attended.

 

In addition, Drakes and indeed other companies enforcing Distress Warrants for unpaid Magistrates Court Fines CAN accept payment plans. The relevant part of their contract with HM Court Service is as follows:

 

Clause 1.8 (In Respect of Distress) states the following:

1.8

Upon contact with the defaulter, the authorised employee will seek with the following to:

• Obtain full payment
  
• If full payment cannot be obtained to effect a levy upon goods
  
• If a specific levy is made, agree a payment plan, providing a part payment is made at the time of contact and full payment will be completed within 60 days of issue of the warrant.

1.9 If payment in full is not forthcoming after contact is established, or after non-compliance with a payment plan, the contractor will issue notice of attendance to remove goods.

1.10 The contractor shall use it’s discretion in granting time to pay and accepting part payment, subject to payment in full being completed and funds cleared and paid to the court within 60 days from the date of the first visit to the defaulter and in any event within 90 days from the date of issue of the warrant.

[John McKenna]

Is the car on finance? What year? Make & Model?

[s.dzimba]

No the car is is 1998 model micra. Its not on HP. Bought is last year for £600

[John McKenna]

I wouldn't remove that car and neither will the bailiff unless forced to. The tow truck will be an extra £125 putting the outstanding amount well above the value of the car. The question is.... how long can you be without the car?

 

You're not going to get any sympathy from the court or Drakes with this matter with regards a payment plan so you really need to look at your options for payment. Do you have any friends or family willing to pay on your behalf?

 

Please note that I speak as a bailiff myself for the company concerned but post without prejudice (contrary to most folks' belief).

[tonycee]

I wouldn't remove that car and neither will the bailiff unless forced to.

 

Well whoopee do. Thats REALLY big of you.

 

The tow truck will be an extra £125 putting the outstanding amount well above the value of the car. The question is.... how long can you be without the car?

 

No. The real question is, WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE> ????

 

You're not going to get any sympathy from the court or Drakes with this matter with regards a payment plan so you really need to look at your options for payment. Do you have any friends or family willing to pay on your behalf?

 

Please note that I speak as a bailiff myself for the company concerned but post without prejudice (contrary to most folks' belief).

 

Mr J McKenna.

 

We really dont give a hoot whether you speak without prejudice or not, we really dont want to hear it.

 

There are enough, non bailiff types, enough willing people who have gained enough experience to fight you "*****" off.

 

We dont care what you think/say.

 

Do us all a favour.

 

Unsubscribe. We dot want your comments.

[John McKenna]

While I'm more than happy for you to be my own little internet troll tonycee, it's not helping the topic starter. If you have issues with me personally, send me a pm.

[tomtubby]

John

 

The contract with Drakes, Swift and Philips is very clear indeed, and in particular Clause 1.8, and 1.9 above.

 

Therefore payments terms can indeed be agreed. Why then is the bailiff ignoring this very important contract?

 

In fact, are your bailiffs even aware of the right to pay by installments???

 

Your answer would be much appreciated.

[sillygirl1]

I wouldn't remove that car and neither will the bailiff unless forced to. The tow truck will be an extra £125 putting the outstanding amount well above the value of the car. The question is.... how long can you be without the car?

 

You're not going to get any sympathy from the court or Drakes with this matter with regards a payment plan so you really need to look at your options for payment. Do you have any friends or family willing to pay on your behalf?

 

Please note that I speak as a bailiff myself for the company concerned but post without prejudice (contrary to most folks' belief).

 

 

You have just gone against OFT guidlines in your post - asking friends and family to pay your debt when it is largely made up of default fees (ie bailiffs charges) is frowned upon.

[tonycee]

While I'm more than happy for you to be my own little Internet troll toynbee, it's not helping the topic starter. If you have issues with me personally, send me a pm.

 

I prefer the previous comments that you deleted.

The one which read,

 

If you have nothing constructive to say, its best you say nothing at all.

 

 

Ditto.

.

.

 

 

P.S. I Have read ALL replies posted by said op.

I fail to see the purpose of said ops presence on this site.

[tomtubby]

By arguing, my previous IMPORTANT post will be ignored. Can we please allow this question to be answered.

 

John

 

The contract with Drakes, Swift and Philips is very clear indeed, and in particular Clause 1.8, and 1.9 above.

 

Therefore payments terms can indeed be agreed. Why then is the bailiff ignoring this very important contract?

 

In fact, are your bailiffs even aware of the right to pay by installments???

 

Your answer would be much appreciated.

[John McKenna]

Let me be clear from the outset. I'm not a spokesman for Drakes so my comments are my own personal thoughts on the matter. While there is scope for part payments, this really is down to the discretion of the executing bailiff. Clause 1.10 would seem to support this.

 

1.10 The contractor shall use it’s discretion in granting time to pay and accepting part payment, subject to payment in full being completed and funds cleared and paid to the court within 60 days from the date of the first visit to the defaulter and in any event within 90 days from the date of issue of the warrant.

Drakes will usually offer a payment plan to a defendant if they phone upon receipt of the initial demand for payment (giving 7 days). Once the warrant is issued to an individual bailiff it's down to their discretion.

 

With regard this particular case, I personally think it's very unlikely authorisation will be granted for the removal of this vehicle. There simply isn't enough value in it and if the person is having difficulty paying just over £450 there's not much point calling a tow truck and adding further costs when payment is by no means a certainty. If the vehicle was worth a few thousand it would be removed without question. If the defendant can do without the car for a few days, the onus of action will shift to the bailiff. If he wants his clamp back (especially if he only has one) I'm sure he's realise it's time to either talk installments or send the warrant back unpaid.

 

 

Sillygirl1

 

My views are my own and are not representative of Drakes Bailiffs.

[s.dzimba]

OK guys all your points have been noted. i am still trying to fight drakes. Case of David and Goliath and have written to them again this weekend.

 

It sound stupid but i texted the bailiff asking him to remove the clamp as i wanted to use the car coz they had failed to adhere to their contracts. I just wanted to know what he was thinking of doing next. he then calls backs. Me ignores his call and he leaves message basically saying he has spoken to area manager and he will not remove the clamp until full amount is paid. he said he couldnt arrange recovery on friday and he will be arranging that on monday. Then the bit that made me laugh was he really would prefer to talk to me personally and try and sort this out with me on Monday. Trying to be mr nice guy but there is no way i am opening my door to this guy. i am already fed up of dealing with him so i am not gonna go into any discussion with him.

 

PLUS i just dont have the cash. No need for him chasing me for money i dont have.

 

I havent given up the fight yet plus the worst they can do is remove the car. My sister is car sharing with me now. Not a brilliant situatiion but it if the worst happens i could do without a car till after feb school half term. Plus i also have acess to patner's car - he doesnt live here but travels so it will inconvinience me for a bit but the bailiff will not get his commission.

 

Oh will update you tomorrow on what happens

[s.dzimba]

 

To all those who have been following my threads i am glad to tell you that my car has now been unclamped and I didnt pay a penny. Your replies and support mearnt i had the energy to fight them. And Tomtubby was of great help - many thanks to her and the pm she was sending me too with advise.

I am glad i didnt give up and kept fighting these Drakes people. Its not over quite yet but I am getting there. I faxed another letter to drakes today just before 9am plus send email over the weekend but thought faxing is alot better plus copy send in post to their customer services manager. This is an addition to another letter i send them on thursday and i have received a confirmation letter from them that they have received my complaint and are investigating it.

 

After the fax this morning bailiff contacts me and says he just need confirmation that i am pregnant so he comes round picks it up and just waffles. I am sure he was pretty unhappy to remove clamp without any money paid to him. He just says or well when the baby is born (in may) we may start chasing you gain because you are just trying to delay it blah blah.

 

Now my next set of action is to wait a week for a reply to my complaint from drakes and see what they say officially. Cant go by the words of bailiff since he just seem to say whatever he likes. If debt is not taken back to HM Courts then will write to HMCS advising them of my complaint to drakes and how stress has affected me and unborn baby. At least if case is taken back to HMCS then i dont have to pay the bailiffs cost plus can arrange repayments. In the meantime i will just start saving a bit so that if i dont go anywhere with my request to have debt back to HMCS then i would have the £450.

 

I will persue my complaint though including writting to the HMCS because they just cant break their contracts and harrass people causing so much distress. The HMCS have to know what these bailiffs are doing

 

I will post copy of my final letter/fax i send this morning just in case someone needs it too

 

Yikeesss I am soooooooooooo happpy! :)This had taken over my life a bit

[s.dzimba]

URGENT

To Drakes Customer Care Manager

28/01/2008

Ref: XXXXXX

This is my formal complaint for I have had my car clamped on 25/01/2008 in respect of HMCS fine and it’s still under clamp but your company or bailiff have acted unlawfully and unreasonably for reasons I will highlight below. For this reason I therefore request that the notice of distress be declared null and void and I have the clamp removed ASAP

1. Your notice of distress you levied today on my car 25/01/2008 is UNLAWFUL because it was levied on the public highway in breach of the Statute of Marlborough. Refer to LEGAL CASE: BA TU DINH v DRAKES GROUP LTD (2000). I have therefore taken photographic evidence to prove this.

2. The charges you have made are in dispute I have not received any previous correspondence from you at my current address and therefore dispute the amount I owe. Refer to my previous correspondence to you. 3. You bailiff failed to provide me with his actual name on the removal notice left on 22/01/2008 for me to check if he is licenced. It will be in breach of contract between Drakes and HMCS to use an unlicenced Bailiff. I contacted XXXX and they are unable to find this bailiff as certificated and can you please let me know whether or not he has a certificate. I have been provided with a copy of the clause from your contract and will consider a complaint to the Enforcement Programme at the Ministry of Justice if Mr XXXX is unlicenced 4. I have requested via your contact centre and through the bailiff himself for more time to pay this debt but have been told I have to pay the debt in full today. I would also like to point up that contracts between Drakes and HMCS state very clearly that if the debtor cannot pay, then a payment plan can be agreed (Clause 1.10 - In Respect of Distress). Therefore you are acting unreasonably in refusing to accept a payment plan from me as I cannot afford to pay the full amount being a single parent and pregnant and expecting I have also written this to HMCS to explain my disappointment. I can be contacted on XXXXXXXX Thank You XXXXXXXX

[chris600uk]

Well done for fighting back! You played it just right!

 

You are now a member of the hedgehog club.

[rambo]

Fantastic news!

Proves the point, we, the little people, CAN beat the big people.

You have to know the law to fight the law.

[PizzaMaker]

i find it amazing that you didnt mention until thread 14 of this link that you are pregnant. If this is the case, then the case would have been returned to the court much earlier.

[John McKenna]

In the meantime i will just start saving a bit so that if i dont go anywhere with my request to have debt back to HMCS then i would have the £450.

That's the most sensible thing I've seen posted in a while from someone in your position.

 

I will persue my complaint though including writting to the HMCS because they just cant break their contracts and harrass people causing so much distress. The HMCS have to know what these bailiffs are doing

While you may think you've been hard done by, lets take a look at the whole process from another perspective.

 

1. Defendant is issued a fine for a criminal offence.

2. Defendant arranges to pay in installments but forgets to set up payments.

3. Court notices defendant has failed to adhere to terms offered. (note this is a COURT FINE not a late credit card payment).

4. Court issues a DISTRESS warrant (Court order to remove defendant's goods and chattles for sale at public auction) to cover the COURT FINE.

5. Court is informed of defendant's new address but initially fail to notify Drakes of new address.

6. Drakes get new address (and in all likelyhood) are told by the Courts to continue with the said DISTRESS.

7. Bailiff finally contacts defendant and "threatens" to remove her goods. Threat? Or verbal precedure? The "threat" is the COURT ACTION against YOU. It's supposed to cause DISTRESS, that's the whole point.

8. Bailiff threatens to come back with a locksmith and Police (perfectly legal however unappropriate it seems).

9. Bailiff clamps your car as a lever to make you pay (perfectly legal).

10. Bailiff tells you he's going to remove your car if you don't pay (perfectly legal).

 

 

Although it may appear I'm having a go at you, I'm merely trying to point out the other side of the coin. A few points.....

 

1. On the basis you failed to even mention you were pregnant in two topics until right at the end, I'm assuming (rightly or wrongly) that you didn't mention this to the bailiff and or supply him with proof initially.

 

Either way, the general guideline FYI is that distress is suspended if the defendant is "heavily" pregnant. Most midwives consider heavily pregnant as being in the third trimester of pregnancy (27-29 weeks onwards depending on who you speak to). With that said you've either just reached it or nearing the 3rd T if you are due near the beginning of May. If you are indeed "heavily" pregnant then common sense has prevailed and distress has ceased now that proof has been provided.

 

2. Although the HMCS contract with Drakes may request Certificated Bailiffs to execute their warrants, there is, to my knowledge, a general period of grace summounting to approx 6 months where by if the bailiff isn't certificated, his/her services are dispensed with by Drakes. Certificated bailiffs do not grow on trees and the drop out rate in the first few weeks/months of employment is massive. As such the bailiff company are afforded this time to certificate their bailiffs. Unless tomtubby recieves a reply to her letter from HMCS to the contrary, I stick by my comments. As such, whether contractually or not, the bailiff's actions have been perfectly legal.

 

3. Although the contract with Drakes states there is scope for installments, it at no time states when this decision must be made. Like it or not, sometimes warrants have to be enforced so that a decision can be made. As I hope you'll appreciate, everyone's circumstances are different and folk are rarely happy to divulge their "real" financial circumstances to a baiiff or the Courts for that matter. Some people purposely hide their true circimstances to avoid paying lump sums even if they can afford it or b) to hide undeclared income from the benefits agency. If we're going to start demanding the bailiffs take part payments from everyone who states on the door they can't afford it, we're going to have a lot of folk taking the preverbial urine. I've lost count of the times folk claiming to be on benefits appear with a huge bundle of notes from upstairs when they suddenly realise they're not getting away with not paying.

 

4. HMCS know exactly what their bailiffs "get up to" most of the time. They also know they have thousands of unpaid criminal fines which go unpaid for years because people refuse to face up to their responsibilites and organise payment. Like it or not, a criminal fine is a criminal fine and whether you think you deserve to be treated like that by the Courts, they have to treat everyone the same if payment isn't forthcoming.

 

 

With all that said, good luck with getting the warrant withdrawn. Hopefully you've learnt something from the experience and appreciate that COURT FINES have to be paid and not just forgotten about. If the warrant is withdrawn, just make sure you stick to the new terms offered by the Courts like GLUE. If you have money deducted from benefit or an attachment to earnings, bare in mind that if for ANY reason there's a break to the payments, you'll need to contact the Court in question again and arrange for payments to recommence. The Courts will not be notified of the reason for a break in payments unless YOU contact them.

 

 

JM

 

Let the hecklers begin!!

[s.dzimba]

i find it amazing that you didnt mention until thread 14 of this link that you are pregnant. If this is the case, then the case would have been returned to the court much earlier.

 

I had no clue that would have made all the difference. I only wrote that in the end of my letter that i was pregnant just as a desperate plea. At least maybe this can help someone in my position next time

[s.dzimba]

i find it amazing that you didnt mention until thread 14 of this link that you are pregnant. If this is the case, then the case would have been returned to the court much earlier.

 

I had no clue that would have made all the difference. I only wrote that in the end of my letter that i was pregnant just as a desperate plea. Maybe this can help someone in my position next time