I've got judgement by default - For the second time !!!**WON**

[itsamomentintime]

surely a second set aside would make the whole system look ridiculous???

[car2403]

Why wait once you have the Judgment? Send the Bailiffs in immediate, IMHO.

 

The reason the original Judgment was set aside was that it wasn't enforced immediately, also IMHO - if you can seek enforcement when you receive it, any attempt to set Judgment aside again will result in them being liable for your costs from this point forward.

 

It might be worth getting some expert advice from CAG (on, or offline from the thread) regarding the legal reasons why? (Posted referred to the site admin team, just in case)

[saintly_1]

As I said earlierpost #70 I'm pretty sure that to apply for a set aside for a second time would be abuse of the process afterall they have had 2 chances

[Blossomandebony]

Thanks, Car, Saintly, Itsamomentintime,

 

I'll keep you posted as soon as there's any more developments.

 

BAE:)

[tendogs]

Evening all, new member blundering in here, but I’ve had some experience of trying to get judgements set aside, from the other perspective however. I have been engaged in a dispute with an insurance broker who is trying to claw back over £6,000.00 in commission from me, I foolishly let this slide and had a judgement by default entered against me.

 

I have made several applications to have this judgement set aside, 3 as far as I can remember, and all have been heard. As far as I can tell, if one has a reason to apply for a set aside there appears to be no reason why one cannot continue to make applications.

[Blossomandebony]

Hi, Tendogs, thanks for your post.

 

Can you clarify how the set asides were achieved?

 

After the original default judgement against you, and the subsequent set aside, what happened?

 

Did you go to court?

 

Did they get a further judgement against you? If so, on what grounds?

 

Or did they only get one judgement by default and you had to make 3 applications to set aside? I'm confused!

 

Thanks, BAE

[tendogs]

Good morning.

What happened was this, I had the judgement made against me at a time when I was not in any fit state to respond and it not until the bailiff arrived that I was galvanised into action. I searched around franticly for some way to respond and found that I could apply to have the judgement set aside which I did, rather inexpertly. At the time of the hearing I was, once again in a state of despair and failed to attend and my application was struck out. Once again the bailiff arrived and I went through the process again and this time the insurance broker failed to attend and the case was adjourned. Consequently I failed to comply with a direction from the judge and, once again my application was struck out. I have made another application to have the judgement set aside and it is going to be heard again on 01.08.2008.

All that is fairly tedious to say nothing of expensive, but I felt that it demonstrated that there would appear not to be any limit to the amount of applications for set aside that one can make. Hope that clarifies.

[tifo]

What happened was this, I had the judgement made against me at a time when I was not in any fit state to respond and it not until the bailiff arrived that I was galvanised into action. I searched around franticly for some way to respond and found that I could apply to have the judgement set aside which I did, rather inexpertly. At the time of the hearing I was, once again in a state of despair and failed to attend and my application was struck out. Once again the bailiff arrived and I went through the process again and this time the insurance broker failed to attend and the case was adjourned. Consequently I failed to comply with a direction from the judge and, once again my application was struck out. I have made another application to have the judgement set aside and it is going to be heard again on 01.08.2008.

 

All that is fairly tedious to say nothing of expensive, but I felt that it demonstrated that there would appear not to be any limit to the amount of applications for set aside that one can make. Hope that clarifies.

 

But, your previous non-attendances and set aside applications won't look good at the hearing, of the judge is made aware of them, and he will be if the other party is any good. It could be said you are wasting court time.

[tendogs]

Morning tifo

My, that’s cheered me up no end and there I was feeling quite chirpy this morning. No, of course you’re correct but it’s slightly more complicated than I have, at first, made it appear mainly because I didn’t think that this thread was an appropriate place to lay out the whole issue.

I have not attended on one occasion but the other party has never attended at all, my failure to comply with directions was due to inexperience rather than contempt and I think that the judge understood that. On the whole I have found them, judges that is, to be quite accommodating towards me although it is obvious that they consider that I have a fool for a client and they cannot understand why I’m not paying some lawyer to help me.

[car2403]

Morning tifo

 

My, that’s cheered me up no end and there I was feeling quite chirpy this morning. No, of course you’re correct but it’s slightly more complicated than I have, at first, made it appear mainly because I didn’t think that this thread was an appropriate place to lay out the whole issue.

 

I have not attended on one occasion but the other party has never attended at all, my failure to comply with directions was due to inexperience rather than contempt and I think that the judge understood that. On the whole I have found them, judges that is, to be quite accommodating towards me although it is obvious that they consider that I have a fool for a client and they cannot understand why I’m not paying some lawyer to help me.

 

Don't lose faith just yet, brother!

 

Finding CAG and learning of your legal rights is a decent enough explanation as to why you now feel you can face this issue head on, whereas previously you've "buried your head" because you didn't understand the issue, IMHO.

 

It would be worth starting your own thread, outlining what has/hasn't happened with you to date, then getting some expert CAG advice from the likes on here - that way, you'll get detailed information on how to proceed and win your case!

 

Bring it on, I say...

[Blossomandebony]

Thanks for the info, Tendogs, and good luck with your case!

 

BAE:)

[tendogs]

Thank you all for your good wishes; I will begin another thread in a little while.

[Blossomandebony]

Judgement by default obtained yesterday.

 

However, the defendant is definitely applying for a set aside.

 

Where do I go from here?

 

bAE

[tomterm8]

That's the third time, isn't it?

 

Call up theeir solicitor, say you want to talk without prejudice, and inform them that, having been awarded judgement by default three times, if they apply for another set aside, and you gain judgement at the end of the trial, you intend to raise a formal complaint with the attorney general under the Supreame Courts Act 1981 s42.

Edited July 24, 2008 by tomterm8

[Blossomandebony]

Hi, Tomterm,

 

No - it's actually the second default judgement! (Saintly1 changed the thread title recently, I think that is the confusion!).

 

I'm certainly thinking of compllaining about the solicitor's behaviour, though. Do you think I've got grounds on the basis of the second application for a set aside, (amongst other things)? Cheers.

 

BAE

[reallymadwoman]

You have to fight it.

 

Familiarise yourself with the rules for applications to the court under CPR, link here :- PART 23 - GENERAL RULES ABOUT APPLICATIONS FOR COURT ORDERS

 

You absolutely have to turn up at the hearing, well prepared to argue your case, but with the knowledge that it could go either way.

 

In the hope that the application is refused, set out in bullet points everything that has happened so far, highlighting all the failures on the part of the defence. Include the fact that they have no real defence to your claim as it's for a credit card, not bank charges, and all companies have been practically paying out as a matter of routine. If you need statistics, no doubt one of the site team can provide them.

 

On the off chance the application is allowed, have an 'either .. or' direction ready for the judge to look at, basically saying that either they now file and serve whatever they were supposed to serve last time within say 7 days, or judgement by default is reinstated and they are not allowed further set asides.

 

In either case, have a request for your reasonable costs in attending the hearing ready.

 

I'm still a beginner at this court stuff, but I'm sure someone else will help out with the wording of directions etc if you need it, and also point out any glaring errors in my suggestions. Above all, you cannot give up and let them win. They are not only wrong in the first place, they are obviously totally incompetent and should be made to pay for their errors. I've read a mention of a wasted costs order before, but don't know when/how you would ask for such a thing. Can anyone else help out?

[tomterm8]

Well, it's not good case management for a professional company, that's for sure. i don't think it's bad enough for them to get the attorney general to prosecute the case though, although it will annoy the judge.

 

I would attend the hearing, formally complain - especially if they don't send you notice etc, and ask for costs of attending both set aside hearings.

[Blossomandebony]

Thanks, Reallymadwoman and Tomterm,

 

Rest assured, I will be attending the set aside hearing this time! To be honest I don't hold out much hope for stopping their application but it will be good experience (and i hope to see their solicitor squirm when asked to explain their incompetence).

 

I have plenty of evidence that I have acted correctly and honestly in the form of letters, phone logs etc so I will be able to put a strong argument to the judge, ( any further ideas welcome, of course).

 

One more question. Do I need to send in my statement and evidence before the hearing or do I just take it with me and present it at the hearing?

 

Thanks, BAE

[tomterm8]

You can give it to them at the hearing.

[reallymadwoman]

Could you ask for their statement and evidence in advance of the hearing? It would certainly help organise your case.

[tomterm8]

Yeah, they should provide you with a copy of the application before the hearing

[Blossomandebony]

Yeah, they should provide you with a copy of the application before the hearing

 

That's interesting - as I received nothing at all for the last set aside! More evidence, I guess, of their incompetence, and more ammo to use in my statement.

 

As soon as I get notification of the date for the set aside, I am going to send off a request for costs 'so far' to their soliciors, (recorded delivery of course), and present it to the judge at the hearing.

 

Can anyone confirm that you're allowed to charge £9.50 per hour for preparation time, regarding each part of my claim? I think I read this figure somewhere but I'm not sure if it is something enshrined in CPR, or just a reasonable, suggested amount.

 

BAE

[tomterm8]

I think that's reasonable, yes.

[car2403]

Can anyone confirm that you're allowed to charge £9.50 per hour for preparation time, regarding each part of my claim? I think I read this figure somewhere but I'm not sure if it is something enshrined in CPR, or just a reasonable, suggested amount.

 

Here you go;

 

CPR Part 48.6(4)(b) and Practice Direction 52.4;

 

CPR 48.6(4)(b);

where the litigant cannot prove financial loss, an amount for the time reasonably spent on doing the work at the rate set out in the practice direction

 

SECTION 52 LITIGANTS IN PERSON: RULE 48.6...

52.4 The amount, which may be allowed to a litigant in person under rule 46.3(5)(b) and rule 48.6(4), is £9.25 per hour.

[Blossomandebony]

Thanks, Car, I do recollect reading a list of costs from one of your threads, which is probably where I got that £9 figure!

 

Cheers, BAE