Bailiffs and my car

[Zaramax]

Hi to all in the Consumer Action Group this is my first post so i hope i have done the correct thing.

I have problem with Bailiffs and my council Tax, i have been reading the information on the site and followed advice and have not let bailiffs in.

They have been to my house on three occassions, i have never spoke to them and they have never been in my house. On the third time as i was driving my car away from my house there was a van with two men who must have taken my car registration as there was a letter saying

Notice of seizure of goods

Attendence to Levy fees £42.50

Levy fee £81

Reedemption of goods fee £24.50

Van fee £230

An inventory of seizes goods which has my car details and want my documents and keys.

Please help as the car is an old girl i wont get peanuts for, i use to go to work and take my children back and forwards to school.

I have been paying council tax to the council since bailiffs called been to talk to them and the person was very unhelpful

What do i do?

[tomtubby]

This is unusual in that a Notice of Seizure of Goods and Inventory is a Form that was established for the collection of outstanding Parking Charge Notices and is not usually used for the collection of Council Tax.

 

For the collection of Council Tax the normal form is a Walking Possession ......assuming of course that the bailiff has been able to gain "peaceful entry".

 

In the first instance could you send me a PM with the name of the bailiff listed on this document so that I can check if he is certificated or not.

 

On the Notice of Seizure is there any mention of the legal ruling . This is usually under the heading. What else is on this Notice.?

 

 

The bailiff name by PM ONLY.

[VANILLA175]

Hi. Never posted before so hope this is the right way to do it.

For Council Tax goods still have to be seized and listed on an inventory. All a Walking Possession order does is come to an agreement with the Bailiff that goods will remain with the person until the debt is paid at an arranged time.

[Zaramax]

Ok so they have done an inventory, my car is listed, i have not signed a Walking possession order so what do i do hide the car or give them the car?

[Guest 10110001]

Yes hide it, transfer the car V5 into someone elses name. If the bailiff takes it, the new owner can replace the car as dealership cost and charge it to the authority that sent the bailiff.

 

Check with tomtubby on current legal ownership status of the car, and whether you can lawfully dispose of it in this way.

[Zaramax]

Can I hide the car or transfer ownership legally before they come back which will be any day. I am paying council tax to council. I have written to them but they havent replied, i am going there this week.

[tomtubby]

You need to contact the bailiif company in the morning to ask the name of the bailiff. So as to not arouse suspicion, you should say that you have been left a notice by a bailiff but you cant read him name. They will ask for your account number.

 

Let me know asap, I can then advise further.

[Zaramax]

If they try to take car tomorrow can i drive off, i dont want to do anything i should'nt especially with my children there.

I will contact bailiffs tomorrow and get in touch

[VANILLA175]

If the car has been seized legally it is an offence to dispose of it. This can result in a fine of 3 times the outstanding debt. Please do not do anything in a panic. If the Bailiffs really wanted to take the car they could have done so already. They would much rather come to an arrangement with you as your car would not clear the debt fully anyway.

You have nothing to lose by ringing them. Which firm of Bailiffs is this?

The fees quoted do seem way too high. Do you have more than 1 lot of Council Tax outstanding?

[Zaramax]

I have this years and last year arrears which i had an arrangement to pay the arrears with the council i have written asking how much i owe what are arrears but they have not replied, but since bailliffs been i have been paying and the debt was reduced but because of the fees it has gone back up and nearly as much as i owed before i tryed to clear debt.

Do i pay bailliffs or hope my account is turned back, my car is old they will be lucky to get £150 for it pointless when i owe alot

[VANILLA175]

Can you give me the Bailiff company and councils name by PM. I may be able to give you more advice re- charges.

[HSBCrusher]

Please do not offer advice via PM, use the forum.

 

thank you

[VANILLA175]

Sorry am new to posting. Only wanting company and councils name by PM as didnt think they could be named. Am happy to try and give advice via forum.

[Guest 10110001]

If the car has been seized legally it is an offence to dispose of it. This can result in a fine of 3 times the outstanding debt. Please do not do anything in a panic.

 

What's the act of parliament, or legislation that sets out a fine is three times the outstanding debt?

 

Legal seizure:

 

1. Doesn't a bailiff need a signature on a WPA?

2. No signature needed?

3. Bailiff writes 'refused to sign' - and does that constitute signature of agreement?

 

If the Bailiffs really wanted to take the car they could have done so already. They would much rather come to an arrangement with you as your car would not clear the debt fully anyway.

 

Not true, the bailiff will go the route that makes the most money. Your comment below affirms that position.

 

You have nothing to lose by ringing them. Which firm of Bailiffs is this?

The fees quoted do seem way too high. Do you have more than 1 lot of Council Tax outstanding?

[Zaramax]

Tomtubby I rang bailiffs today had to hold line for 30mins was cut off, rang again to be cut off again after listening to options. Had to go back to work that was my lunch break. Should I email them to request information.

 

Im confused now do i just give them car keys i use my car to get to diffferent child nurserys as i am covering for people who are ill or on holiday sometimes at short notice.

[tomtubby]

We do have some alternative telephone numbers but I will need to know the firm of bailiffs first.

[Zaramax]

Bristow & Sutor

[Guest 10110001]

Tomtubby I rang bailiffs today had to hold line for 30mins was cut off, rang again to be cut off again after listening to options.

 

One golden rule of dealing with bailiffs, NEVER phone them on 0870. Re route the call via SayNoTo0870.com.

 

They just screw you for the phone charges. Remember to add the call costs to you bill of disbursements when you file the claim to recover your losses.

[PizzaMaker]

Yes hide it, transfer the car V5 into someone elses name. If the bailiff takes it, the new owner can replace the car as dealership cost and charge it to the authority that sent the bailiff.

 

Check with tomtubby on current legal ownership status of the car, and whether you can lawfully dispose of it in this way.

 

Transfering the car into someone elses name does not mean the bailiffs can not take the car. What sometimes happens is that if the car is transferred to someone else, the bailiffs will want to see a sale of receipt, insurance held, etc.

[Guest 10110001]

the bailiffs will want to see a sale of receipt, insurance held, etc.

 

Anyone can write out a sale of receipt between two individuals.

 

An insurance policy has no bearing on legal ownership. I have insurance and I can drive any car, anywhere in the UK for any reason.

 

Once a bailiff has claimed a vehicle without a signature on a WPA, or has clamped it on a public road, I don't know if that means the vehicle is now the legal property of the bailiff and/or he is responsible for it say, if the tax runs out while clamped etc.

[PizzaMaker]

Anyone can write out a sale of receipt between two individuals.

 

Yes very true, this is why the bailiff will still take the car. I know of people who have told me the stories of people who claim to have bought the car 3 weeks ago and the receipt they show is dated TODAY and the ink is still wet.

 

An insurance policy has no bearing on legal ownership. I have insurance and I can drive any car, anywhere in the UK for any reason.

 

I believe it just helps if the car has been sold genuniely. Even though you have insurance to drive any car, say you used my car which has no insurance, you would not be covered?

 

Once a bailiff has claimed a vehicle without a signature on a WPA, or has clamped it on a public road, I don't know if that means the vehicle is now the legal property of the bailiff and/or he is responsible for it say, if the tax runs out while clamped etc.

 

Once bailiff has clamped car, I believe it is the property of the baliiff company as they are the ones who have the power to seize and sell the car. You could even possibly claim it is the clients property as they are the people who asked the bailiff company to do the work on behalf of them.

[Markiemark1]

A walking possession agreement is exactly that - an agreement. It doesn't have to be offered. A bailiff can seize goods and remove them, he or she does not have to leave them with the debtor - and a WPA is simply an agreement to leave the goods in the debtor's possession to allow them time to come up with the money.

 

So, if a bailiff seizes the car he or she will normally arrange to HPI and carry out a keeper enquiry in the first instance to ensure that it is the property of the debtor. However, to dispose of it, or any other goods that have been seized would amount to "rescue". If a debtor removes or sells goods that have been levied upon an offence is committed, from memory, under common law. I think that the rules regarding the fine being treble the amount of the debt relate to the laws under the Distress for Rent Act 1689, and I'm not sure whether this would apply to Council Tax or RTA debt cases.

 

I'll do some digging to see what I can turn up.

 

RM

[Guest 10110001]

A walking possession agreement is exactly that - an agreement. It doesn't have to be offered.

 

Then why does it need a signature? and

 

Why wrtite on it - refused to sign?

 

 

A bailiff can seize goods and remove them, he or she does not have to leave them with the debtor - and a WPA is simply an agreement to leave the goods in the debtor's possession to allow them time to come up with the money.

 

An agreement without a signature still count as an agreement?

 

So, if a bailiff seizes the car he or she will normally arrange to HPI and carry out a keeper enquiry in the first instance to ensure that it is the property of the debtor. However, to dispose of it, or any other goods that have been seized would amount to "rescue"..

 

I think the operative word is recovered. What's to stop the owner from taking the car back with his own keys when he gets a DVLA letter saying someone is trying to re register the car?

 

Without a logbook, the engine immobiliser key, ignition key stereo passwords etc, it'll be expensive breaking the car open and replacing everything to get it driveable again. Newer cars worth anything probably still belong to the finance/leasing company. People with brand new metal dont normally get parking tickets.

 

If a debtor removes or sells goods that have been levied upon an offence is committed,."

 

What legislation?

 

from memory, under common law. I think that the rules regarding the fine being treble the amount of the debt relate to the laws under the Distress for Rent Act 1689, and I'm not sure whether this would apply to Council Tax or RTA debt cases."

 

I have been looking for this, but cannot find it.

 

I'll do some digging to see what I can turn up..

 

Do keep me posted.

[PizzaMaker]

How brand new doe the "metal" have to be? That made chuckle.

 

You would be surprised.

[Zaramax]

What does WPA mean. I have signed nothing i have only seen bailiffs while driving off thats when they took my car details.