Please help with CCAs

[HeatherMc]

Hi all. I have just recieved ccas from Barclaycard, egg and hfc. They all look fine to me but then I don't really know what i'm looking for. So can someone just have a read over and check they are OK please?

http://www.holdthatpic.com/photos/1015/29764.jpg]View image at HoldThatPic.com[/url] Barclaycard cca page 1

http://www.holdthatpic.com/photos/1015/29763.jpg]View image at HoldThatPic.com[/url] Barclaycard cca page 1

http://www.holdthatpic.com/photos/1015/29765.jpg]View image at HoldThatPic.com[/url] HFC CCA

http://www.holdthatpic.com/photos/1015/29766.jpg]View image at HoldThatPic.com[/url] Egg CCA page 1

http://www.holdthatpic.com/photos/1015/29767.jpg]View image at HoldThatPic.com[/url] Egg CCA page 2

 

Thanks in advance.

[Tau]

Hi Heather

 

Your links dont work.

[HeatherMc]

uh oh. What do I do? Not very good with this sort of thing.

 

Heather

[N.P]

Hi Heather,

 

There you go, all working now the URL`s to each link were wrong.

 

The scan quality of the CCA`s are not very good, although I`m no expert, so I`m not sure what we should be looking for.

 

Hopefully someone with more experience and knowledge will be along soon.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P.

 

 

Barclycard CCA 1 http://www.holdthatpic.com/photos/1015/29764.jpg

Barclycard CCA 2 http://www.holdthatpic.com/photos/1015/29763.jpg

HFSC CCA http://www.holdthatpic.com/photos/1015/29765.jpg

Egg CCA 1 http://www.holdthatpic.com/photos/1015/29766.jpg

Egg CCA 2 http://www.holdthatpic.com/photos/1015/29767.jpg

[HeatherMc]

Thanks for that N.P. Is there any way I can make them bigger? When I was editing it was really big but not sure how to make it bigger and clearer. Don't know much about these things.

[HeatherMc]

Can anyone tell me what i'm meant to be looking for and how to tell if it's enforceable? Thanks.

[alfwithhair]

have a read of this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful.html

[HeatherMc]

They all seem to be ok to me. What terms and conditions need to be there?

[HeatherMc]

When it says that the credit limit should be there does it mean an actual value of it?

 

In my Barclaycard and Egg card they both say something along the lines of we will tell you your credit limit when you recieve your card/ we will tell you from time to time the approved limit we have set.

 

Does it have to give an exact value e.g, £500, £1500 or is it ok to put what they have put?

[HeatherMc]

[HeatherMc]

Can anyone help?

 

Having read over them again there are a few things I would like to query.

 

HFC

 

1) My HFC agreement is very unclear, it is a very bad copy.

2) At the bottom of the page it says page 1 of 3 but I have only been given 1 page, should I not have been given all 3 pages?

3) It also says that the T&Cs are continued overleaf so again, shouldn't I have been given the following pages to get all the T&Cs?

 

Barclaycard

 

1)In the letter they have written me it says a copy of my "application credit agreement" had been provided. So it is an application they have sent me. There are also parts in what they have sent which confirms that is an application.

 

2) It has not been signed or dated by anyone from Barclaycard.

 

Egg Card

 

1) Again, this is an application credit agreement. Is an application acceptable?

 

2) There don't seem to be any T&Cs with it. It tells me info on interest and repayments but there are no other T&Cs with it.

 

Barclaycard and Egg Card

 

I found this in the consumer Credit Act 1974, it related to the credit limit:

 

In relation to running-account credit, " credit limit" means, as respects any period,

the maximum debit balance which, under the credit agreement, is allowed to stand on

the account during that period, disregarding any term of the agreement allowing that

maximum to be exceeded merely temporarily.

 

Now that to me suggests that it should be expressed as an actual value eg £500, £2000 etc.

 

Because both of mine are application credit agreements they do not give an actual credit limit.

 

Egg say- We will tell you from time to time the approved limit we have set.

 

Barclaycard say- Your credit limit is the maximum amount available on your account. You will be advised of your credit limit when you first receive your Barclaycard. Your credit limit will also be clearly shown on your statement each month together with your available remaining credit. Occassionally, we may change your credit limit depending on our assessment of your account.

 

Is this acceptable? Any thoughts?

 

Thanks.

[pt2537]

Hi Heather,

 

With regards to the HFC agreement, a true copy MUSt be legible

 

this comes from Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557) which states

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed

agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety

under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

 

(2) The wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed

agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act

without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed

by these Regulations; and

(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote.

 

if it is not clearly legible you have cause for complaint and to ask that they send you a clearly legible copy in compliance with the above regulations

 

Regards

paul

[HeatherMc]

Thanks Paul, I thought that might have been the case. The copy you can see in my previous post is the same as what I have been sent, very unclear.

 

Any suggestions for a template letter?

 

Thanks.

[pt2537]

Dear Sirs,

 

Thank you for responding to my request for a copy of the executed agreement relating to acc no xxxxxxxxx

 

However, i must pointout that the copy you have supplied me is totally illegible and therefore not in compliance with Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

 

for the avoidance of any doubt, the regulations state.

 

Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed

agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety

under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily

distinguishable from the .

 

(2) The wording of any Form prescribed by these Regulations shall be reproduced in copies of unexecuted or executed

agreements or in Notices of Cancellation Rights sent [by an appropriate method] under section 64(1)(b) or (2) of the Act

without any alteration or addition, except that--

(a) the creditor or owner may enter the name and address of the debtor or hirer in any Cancellation Form prescribed

by these Regulations; and

(b) every Form shall be completed in accordance with any footnote

 

 

therefore i require that you supply me a true copy of the agreement in a clearly legible form to discharge your obligations under s77 Consumer Credit Act 1974.if you do not send me the requested documentation i shall make a foraml complaint to Treading Standards

 

i await your reply

 

 

try something liek that, it should sort em out

 

Regards

paul

[HeatherMc]

Thanks for the letter Paul. Any thoughts on the other agreements?

 

Heather

[pt2537]

Hi Heather

 

to be honest, i suggest that you let peterbard look over them

 

hes the oracle on these sorts of things

 

i did notice that one agreement, the barclay card one is improperly executed but i really do think we should speak to peter

 

Regards

paul

[HeatherMc]

I sent him a PM last night but he hasn't replied yet. He must get loads of people looking for his help though so not expecting an instant response. I'm just impatient!

 

Heather

[Duffers Mum]

Following this with interest as Heather seems to have been sent exactly the same as what I've been sent. Heather, out of interest, what date did you take your agreement out on?

[HeatherMc]

I took out my Egg card in May 2004, Barclaycard in Sept 2004 and HFC was sept 2005.

 

What are you going to do next? Do you think it's enforceable? Which one is it you have?

[Duffers Mum]

Heather, I'm having a nightmare with good old Barclaycard, they just ignore everything I send! They insist they have complied but have sent me 3 different lots of T&C's all from different time periods and none which seem to be around the time I opened my account with them! Yours looks like an application form which is exactly the same as mine. Good luck

[HeatherMc]

So what do you think my next move should be?

[HeatherMc]

Bump, need to reply to them by the 11th of November so can anyone help. Are they enforceable?

[pt2537]

Hi heather,

 

they do look broadly enforcable except the HFC one which i commented on earlier

 

the Barclays one is not properly executed but htat would not stop a court enforcing the agreement as it is signed by the debtor and does appear to contain the prescribed terms

 

the Egg agreement appears to be enforcable also.

 

the Application would come under s59(1) CCA 1974 however, if the document contains all the prescribed terms and is signed by the debtor, application or not the court can enforce it

 

I would hold on for peter to take a look

 

Regards

 

paul

[kennyparkroad]

Hi heather,

 

they do look broadly enforcable except the HFC one which i commented on earlier

 

the Barclays one is not properly executed but htat would not stop a court enforcing the agreement as it is signed by the debtor and does appear to contain the prescribed terms

 

the Egg agreement appears to be enforcable also.

 

the Application would come under s59(1) CCA 1974 however, if the document contains all the prescribed terms and is signed by the debtor, application or not the court can enforce it

 

I would hold on for peter to take a look

 

Regards

 

paul

 

 

 

sorry paul, dont agree with that.

 

If they havent executed it, then it is not a valid signed, executed copy of the CCA which then means it doesnt comply with the act, and people have had this written off and even won in court over something which seems trivial but actually isnt.

 

Ok, so Heathers signature is on it, but theirs isnt,

 

No Executed = No complied with the CCA request for a signed executed agreement.

[pt2537]

 

127.

Enforcement orders in cases of infringement.

— (1) In the case of an application for an enforcement order under—

(a)

section 65(1)(improperly executed agreements), or

 

(b)

section 105(7)(a) or (b)(improperly executed security instruments), or

 

©

section 111(2)(failure to serve copy of notice on surety), or

 

(d)

section 124(1) or (2)(taking of negotiable instrument in contravention of section 123),

 

 

the court shall dismiss the application if, but (subject to subsections (3) and (4)) only if, it considers it just to do so having regard to—

 

(i) prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question, and the degree of culpability for it; and

 

(ii) the powers conferred on the court by subsection (2) and sections 135 and 136.

 

(2) If it appears to the court just to do so, it may in an enforcement order reduce or discharge any sum payable by the debtor or hirer, or any surety, so as to compensate him for prejudice suffered as a result of the contravention in question.

 

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

(4) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) in the case of a cancellable agreement if—

(a)

a provision of section 62 or 63 was not complied with, and the creditor or owner did not give a copy of the executed agreement, and of any other document referred to in it, to the debtor or hirer before the commencement of the proceedings in which the order is sought, or

 

(b)

section 64(1) was not complied with.

 

 

(5) Where an enforcement order is made in a case to which subsection (3) applies, the order may direct that the regulated agreement is to have effect as if it did not include a term omitted from the document signed by the debtor or hirer.

 

 

 

Hi Kennyparkroad

 

it is truely risky to take this to court on the arguement that the lender has not executed the agreement as the court has the power to issue an enforcement order

 

heather has signed the document and it appears to contain the prescribed terms so under 127(3) the court could see it just to enforce the agreement

 

Regards

paul