ticketed on private/unused land

[soobee]

Hello everyone

 

I received a ticket last thursday but would be very grateful if anyone has any advice before I appeal. There is a narrow alley just across from where I live and to the right of it is a bit of land in front of an old factory building where cars and rubbish have been dumped. The owners of the property where I live have only provided about half of the spaces needed for tenants so there is always a problem with parking. I parked in front of 3 dumped cars one of which has been there for 4 years, as I knew nobody would need to get to them. I was ticketed for footway parking.code 62. I would like to appeal as I dont believe this to be a footway. There are bits which could be called a footway but they are so narrow people just walk straight up the alley.Any advice would be appreciated.

[buzby]

The only way to check for this is to look at a large scale Ordanace Survey map (online) and see if the footpath is actually marked. If so, then it'll be mighty difficult to argue otherwise - as I'm assuming it was the Council that issued the ticket?

 

Check out this link;

 

Get-a-map from Ordnance Survey

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

It is very difficult to challenge a PCN for "footway" parking on the grounds that where you were parked was not footway. There may be other grounds that give you a greater chance of success.

 

Post a copy of the PCN so we can look at it.

 

BTW I assume this is a LA PCN and that you are actually in an area where footway parking is prohibited.

[soobee]

Thanks buzby, I looked at the map and used the zoom tool but still couldn't see the road there was no detail of road names just areas:confused: .

 

Sue

[soobee]

Hello Bernie

 

the contravention was that I was :parked with one or more wheels on any part of an urban road other than a carriageway(footway parking). I dont know what the last bit of your e-mail means.

 

Sue

[buzby]

Thanks buzby, I looked at the map and used the zoom tool but still couldn't see the road there was no detail of road names just areas:confused: .

 

Sue

 

Check on your Council's website - they may make their GIS (Geographic Information System) available on-line for you to look at. The scale you need is 1:2500, this shows footpaths and pillars in high detail.

[buzby]

BTW I assume this is a LA PCN and that you are actually in an area where footway parking is prohibited.

 

Parking on the footpath has always been illegal/prohibited, just it is seldom enforced.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Parking on the footpath has always been illegal/prohibited, just it is seldom enforced.

The position in and outside London is different. Even where footway parking is generally prohibited there may be exemptions and where exemptions end signage has to be adequate.

 

The PCNs that I have had for footway parking have been cancelled on appeal for inadequate signage. The argument that "it is not part of the footway" gets nowhere as it is not being on the carriageway that is the contravention.

 

The PCN itself and the NTO are likely to be more fertile grounds for appeal.

[buzby]

I'd contend that parking on the public footpath is always prohibited unless in can be shown the footpath uses private land in which the landowner still can drive over and use. It would therefor seems sensible that if what you say is true, parking legally on the footpath would be the exception, not the rule so any signage would be declaring that parking on the footpath is allowed at that locus, rather than it being specifically prohibited!

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I'd contend that parking on the public footpath is always prohibited unless in can be shown the footpath uses private land in which the landowner still can drive over and use. It would therefor seems sensible that if what you say is true, parking legally on the footpath would be the exception, not the rule so any signage would be declaring that parking on the footpath is allowed at that locus, rather than it being specifically prohibited!

This is what the dft say:

In some areas pavement parking is prohibited by a local Act of Parliament, and it may be prohibited elsewhere in particular streets or parts of streets by traffic regulation orders. But enforcement may be a problem unless the local authority is able to take on the responsibility through the arrangements being developed under the Road Traffic Act 1991. The various physical measures described in this leaflet are however largely self-enforcing.

In London

“The relevant Traffic Management Order (TMO) is The Greater London Council (General Powers) Act 1974 which prohibits the parking of a vehicle in a position on an urban road where one or all of its wheels rest upon a footway.

“Footway” is defined in section 15 (12) as follows: “footway means a way comprised in an urban road which also comprises a carriageway, being a way over which the public have a right of way on foot only.’

It is also relevant that:

By section 329 of the Highways Act 1980 “Footway is defined as “a way comprised in a highway,

which also comprises a carriageway over which the Public have a right of way on foot only.”

My understanding is that in London it is banned unless an exemption is in place. Outside London it is permitted unless otherwise indicated.

[soobee]

Hello Bernie and buzby

 

Thank you for your advice but theres a lot of legal jargon which I just don't understand. Since I will appeal regardless, I need to know what I am talking about before I write it. In simple terms what do you suggest I say.

Thanks again

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Soobee,

 

What I am saying is that I don't think you will have much chance in appealing against footway parking unless you can categorically show that where you were parked was both private land and that there can have been no reasonable expectation of the public to use it.

 

Where I do think you may have a chance is in possible irregularities in both the PCN and, if you appeal the NTO.

 

To comment on detail we need to see scans of both sides of the PCN.

[patdavies]

The only way to find out whether you were on private land or the footway is to contact the highway authority and ask for a definitive statement as to the extent of the highway.

 

There is every chance that the PA is wrong; every chance that you are wrong - only the authority (usually county council) will have the definite answer. They have no axe to grind about PCNs

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

The question of whether it is private land or not is a red herring. The question is whether or not the public have right of way on foot only.

 

You can still get a LA PCN for parking on privately owned land.

 

Refer here.

 

What of course this does throw up is an issue if you get a PCN for "footway parking" when the pavement is split part footway and, closest to the road, cycleway.

[green_and_mean]

What of course this does throw up is an issue if you get a PCN for "footway parking" when the pavement is split part footway and, closest to the road, cycleway.

 

The contravention is termed 'footway' parking but is as stated previously is actually parked on any part of the street other than the carriageway. This can be a grass verge, driveway, flowerbed, footpath or anything else really that is not meant to be driven or parked on. Parking on a dedicated cycletrack is also a contravention.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

The contravention is termed 'footway' parking but is as stated previously is actually parked on any part of the street other than the carriageway. This can be a grass verge, driveway, flowerbed, footpath or anything else really that is not meant to be driven or parked on. Parking on a dedicated cycletrack is also a contravention.

Of course! Don't I feel dumb particularly given that I referenced it in an earlier post. I confused myself reading this old case (still valid but before the contraventions were updated)!

[patdavies]

Parking on a dedicated cycletrack is also a contravention.

 

Can't see why. The bloody cyclists don't use them:rolleyes:

[buzby]

Can't see why. The bloody cyclists don't use them:rolleyes:

 

So that's why they get a medal if they actually use the road?

[soobee]

Thank you Bernie, Pat, Green and Mean and Buzby. I am going to contact the highway authority by phone as they haven't replied to my e-mails.

 

Wish me luck!

[buzby]

Not that this helps your case, but the following may be thrown at you;

 

The Highway Code (Para 21) states: "Do not park partially or wholly on the pavement unless signs permit it"**

 

The RTA (Road Traffic Act) 1988 (amended 1991) states: "the pavement/footpath is for walking on and is not an extension of the road, and must not be used for parking on."

 

**The Highway Code has no legal standing, but the RTA does.