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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Pipex Contract


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Hi, just a quick querry, I have been with Pipex since January and would like to move to another provider, Pipex have told me I am tied into a year long contract. However at no point did I sign any contract agreeing to this, I have asked Pipex to supply a copy of anything I may have signed agreeing to ther terms and obviously they couldn't provid it. Where do I now stand with the £120 they expect me to pay in relation to my early get out?

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Hi lukemannion, I think you are likely to have a bit of a battle on with this one.

 

You may not have physically signed any contract, in much the same way as most online transactions do not have an actual signature. But it is likely that as part of your application to receive the service, and Pipex's agreement to provide the service you will have given your details and ticked a box to state that "you understand and agree to the terms and conditions set out" etc etc or similar wording. I have taken the two quotes below from their standard T & C's

 

 

3. Term

3.1 This Agreement will commence on the Commencement Date and shall continue for a term equivalent to the subscription period paid by the Customer until the expiry of that subscription period or the Agreement is terminated in accordance with the terms hereof ("the Term") subject to the provisions of paragraph 13.1

and

 

"Minimum Period of Service"

 

© For customers using Pipex Mini, Midi, Start, Go, Max and Managed Business services - The minimum period of service will be twelve (12) months from the commencement date. Please note: All Customers that have not incurred a set up or joining fee and terminate services within the first twelve (12) months of service from the commencement date will be required to pay the remainder of their contract. For example a Customer who chooses Pipex Start + Anytime (£19.00 per month) and cancels their contract after 3 months will be required to pay the last 9 months of the contract at the full price. Therefore £19.00 x 9 months = £171.00.

If you can argue that the service is so bad that it does not meet the standards expected then you may have some chance, but usually they include a phrase like "we cannot guarantee speeds" and set their minimum acceptable speed so low that anything above an old dial up connection is deemed to be within reason.

 

Why are you wanting to change?

Prelim sent May '06

LBA sent June '06

Fob off now rec'd to the prelim

Copy of fob off now rec'd as response to LBA!

Full repayment of all charges since 1997 now received.

Account Closed

Donation made :)

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Found another relevant quote from their t & c's

 

2.2 The provisions of the Application Form are binding on Pipex once Pipex confirm to the Customer in writing acceptance of the Customer's order. The Customer agrees to receive the Service and pay the fees for the Service as specified in this Agreement.

 

and

 

13.2 If a Customer wishes to end this Agreement before the end of the Minimum Period of Service, Pipex shall be entitled to charge the Customer fees which would have been payable by the Customer for the balance of the Minimum Period of Service. In addition to this Pipex shall also be entitled to charge the Customer a one off cancellation fee which will be charged at the equivalent value of any incentives that the Customer may have previously received on the basis of staying with Pipex for the Minimum Period of Service.

13.3 In addition, if a Customer using Pipex Solo, Pipex Lite, Pipex 1000 and Pipex 2000 wishes to end this Agreement before twelve (12) months have elapsed since the Commencement Date Pipex shall be entitled to charge a termination fee. For details of the current termination fee please contact the Pipex Sales department on 0845 077 2537.

 

Sorry I can't be more positive, but as I say a lot depends on why you want to cancel, as it may give you more of a argument against the charge

 

Cheers

Prelim sent May '06

LBA sent June '06

Fob off now rec'd to the prelim

Copy of fob off now rec'd as response to LBA!

Full repayment of all charges since 1997 now received.

Account Closed

Donation made :)

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  • 1 month later...

Quick update, sorry it took so long but as expected Pipex cut me off. I ended up getting a letter from their solicitors basically saying to pay up or they'll take me to court and charge more, I wrote back saying I am quite prepared to pay the amount if they can supply me with a signed agreement or a recording of the telephone call that I alledgelly verbally agreed to a years contract, if they can't then I can only assume such a contract doesn't exist and therfore neither would this debt. I also explained I had previously writtain to Pipex via recorded delivery requesting the same. I added I had not made unreasonable requests and had done my best to keep it out of the court system.

 

Everything has now been put on hold while I assume they search for an agreement, i'll give it a little longer and then complain to OFCOM.

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This would be a good route if the contract between you had been paperbased. However as with most broadband services you would have been sent an installation disc which you would not have been able to complete the installation if you did not tick the box. The fact that your broadband is installed means you agreed to their terms and conditions

 

Am not really sure what you are going to go to Ofcom with ... most broadband suppliers have an initial 12 month contract - you want out of it early you either have to pay the price or wait till the end of the contract.

 

If the supply of the service is poor then there are specific routes to take - none of which is to not pay and threaten with Ofcom when it doesn't look like you have any basis

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  • 1 month later...

Honey hit the nail on the head.

 

Sign up to a news service (£6-£15p/m) and get something like sabnzbd (free) and a Newzbin account (£1.00p/m).

 

This will enable you to download over 1TB of data a month, Pipex will be falling over themselves to offer an early end to your contract.

 

The only problem you'll have then is finding an ISP who will allow you to continue downloading that sort of amount a month. You'll be hooked to news services by then. :-)

 

A news service (usenet) account will give you the same access to movies, tv programs, books and music that P2P allows but it actually works. Oh and it's about 100 times faster than P2P too.

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th3joker, that's posibly one way but be careful, you could end up with just a throttled service. So you are no nearer the end of your contract but have a much slower connection speed for your trouble. This would leave you even worse off.

 

from thinkbroadband.com ...

 

Also the management used, appears to be a fairly straightforward throttle of the lines ability to download data, and is across the board, rather than for specific protocols or ports. In some cases people are seeing connections go from working at 200KB/sec to just 20KB/sec when the management is in place.

 

lukemannion, I'm not saying don't - just be wary

Prelim sent May '06

LBA sent June '06

Fob off now rec'd to the prelim

Copy of fob off now rec'd as response to LBA!

Full repayment of all charges since 1997 now received.

Account Closed

Donation made :)

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If you signed up to pipex you automatically are locked into a 12 month contract there is nothing you can say to get out of it, bar do what Honey says and hammer the amount you d/l.

 

Believe me they will offer you your MAC code straight away i just wished i did what Honey suggested.

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Luke,

 

I believe Pipex changed either their FUP or T&C's in February this year, in which case you are allowed to leave on the basis that they changed their contractual obligation after you had agreed to the contract.

 

I am not sure exactly when in February it was and they may have attached a clause to it stating that you can indeed end the 12 month term early, but you would need to do so within a 30 day period.

 

It may merit a bit of digging around to find the information, I will certainly look through my Pipex correspondence to see if I can find it.

 

All the best,

 

Adrian

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Hi Luke,

 

I was right they did and here it is:

 

Fair Use Policy (FUP) 14/02/07

 

The Pipex Fair Use Policy (FUP) has been implemented so that we can deliver a broadband service that is fast and reliable to all our customers.

We monitor the performance of our network and may restrict the amount of bandwidth available to very heavy users during busy periods to ensure that the majority of the customer base have a good experience. This applies to all customers using our Pipex broadband services including unlimited broadband.

In addition we will contact customers who frequently use excessive bandwidth to the detriment of others to advise them of this, ask them to change their behaviour and offer them alternative courses of action. In some cases if their usage remains high we will suspend or close their account. This will enable us to offer a fair service to the rest of the customer base.

Why have a Fair Use Policy?

Some customers usage is in excess of that expected from normal home use and this impacts on the service level to others particularly at busy times. This may be due to high use of file sharing software or heavy downloads of music and films.

Will I be affected by the Fair Use Policy?

If you don't use file sharing software or download large files from the Internet it's unlikely you'll ever be affected by our policy. If you do, all we request is that you do so with consideration for other customers sharing the Pipex network, for instance, downloading outside peak hours.

What happens if my use is very high?

If your broadband usage is occasionally very high, we're unlikely to be concerned. However, if your usage is frequently high and impacts our network, and the experience of other customers, in a negative way then we will get in touch with you to ask you to change your behaviour.

If your usage remained high and didn’t change, or contravened the Acceptable Use Policy (AUP), we may take further action and may suspend your service and close the account. We want to avoid this happening and ask for your support in ensuring a good service for all Pipex customers.

How can I manage my usage more efficiently?

If you intend to use your broadband connection for downloading large files we suggest you try and do this outside of peak hours.

For previous updates regarding Traffic Management Progress and High Traffic Usage in relation to our updated FUP please click the following links:

High Traffic Usage Update (1 July 2005)

Traffic Management Progress Update (July 2005)

 

If you have any questions or concerns regarding this statement you can contact us by e-mailing: [email protected]

 

 

 

I think the key was the date, I cancelled mine in March just after receiving the letter stating that the FUP was changing. I stated that since the FUP and therefore contract and service had changed I was no longer tied to the original contract because of this.

 

They wrote to me just after the FUP had been put in place (early March) and said that I was in breach of their FUP and offered me the option of reducing usage or taking a MAC and leaving. I took the MAC, though I had terrible problems for a year afterwards with them trying to continue to take money.

 

 

 

If they do let you out of the contract, cancel the direct debit immediately. They tried to debit the remaining 10 months in one go the following day after having agreeing not to do this.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Guest grizzleguts

Hi, the biggest problem with ISP's is that, no terms and conditions are actually supplied, and the only time you get to find out there are terms and conditions, is when you phone up to complain, and they state "the terms and conditions are on our web site".

The fact that they send you a modem etc, means they have had ample opportunity to supply them, which of course they do not.

Having asked for them to send you a copy of the agreement (hopefully via recorded mail), and they refuse, they are infact in breech of the CCA.

If taken to court, you would find that, the standard form contract, that was verbally agreed, without the T&C's, would be laughed out of the court. especially, as you would have proof you have asked for them, and if they have cut off your internet connection, How are you suppossed to view them?

Also with holding your Mac code would be basically making you Unemployed if you needed the internet for work, which with a half decent lawyer, would be able to get a settlement, before the court stage, or get you some form of compensation for financial and personel distress.

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