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    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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Egg (now Barclaycard) was PPI now Unenforceable...what next please?!


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Hello and thanks for your amazing forum :) I hope you can help, I've read loads of posts but can't find anything that matches my scenario: (I'll try and keep it brief!)

 

I've got a C/card which was with Egg and is now with Barclaycard due to their purchase of egg. It's now down to £4300, (was more like £6k I think) I originally took it out in 2003 odd. I knew I had PPI with them, and so sent off my £1 and asked for my agreement, and have got back a letter which I wasn't expecting, stating that:

 

"We are currently unable to provide a copy of the terms of your credit agreement as varied in accordance with section 82 (1) of the Act. We accept that we are therefore prevented from enforcing our agreement with you while this state of affairs continues.

 

With immediate effect we have suspended your Barclaycard account (that's ok, I haven't used it in over a year, just been trying to clear the debt) We have taken this action because in our view there is a significantly increased risk that you will cease to make payments to your Barclaycard account. This is a temporary measure which will be kept under review. We have not closed your account.

 

It then goes on to talk about cases where people have tried to get money back and failed, and says that I "should continue to pay".

 

I've read loads of posts and forums about unenforceable debts and am confused. I also know that a lot of the account is made up of charges from when I couldn't pay. I am currently paying a really small amount monthly and have done for 1 year, since I wrote to them with my income and expenditure and offer to pay, while making regular payments so they had to accept it.

 

Obviously, I was just looking into PPI and then was going to look at charges, but if I've got an unenforceable debt, can someone please advise what should I do now? I would love it if they would write the debt off. I have other debts which I am also looking into for PPI/charges, my total debt is £23,000. I have been struggling with debt for 10 years now, and it's time I put a stop to it. I now am proud to say I live within my means and intend to never touch credit again.

 

Thank you for reading.

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i would suspect that ppi from 2003 will wipe this debt and charges from upto 6yrs ago, will put money in your pocket!

 

if you've got all the statements

 

get reclaiming!!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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So the account is now in dispute so you don't have to make any payments at present.

 

The good bit, just as dx has said, I bet there are also other charges that can be claimed back as well. It couldn't happen to a nicer bank, they hate people like you. If you haven't got all your statements etc that will allow you to calculate charges and ppi payments, then sar them and get the lot.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi again, First of all, thank you so much for your encouraging replies, and Secondly sorry for the delay in responding, as a self employed person, finding the time to deal with this (and keep food on the table) is very difficult.

 

Firstly I should say I think I cancelled the PPI after about 2/3 years (when I realised it was costing an arm and a leg)

 

I don't have statements, and would need to go the SAR route (have looked at the template), but not sure if I would be better just trying to get them to write it off - rather than going after them for charges to be refunded to me....and the hassle that entails...I have drafted the following letter, (after reading several advise sites and taking parts from other template letters) and I would be very grateful for your thoughts...

 

 

Dear (name)

 

A large amount of the account balance is made up from your charges which have contributed to my serious financial difficulties. These have been proven in numerous other cases to be unfair as they were contrary to the aims of the Lending Code (Section 9) and Banking Conduct of Business Sourcebook (section 5.1.4 ‘in particular, a firm should deal fairly with a banking customer whom it has reason to believe is in financial difficulty’). For many months my personal income decreased, and I had to make regular cash withdrawals using the card to make ends meet.

 

Pretty much every month I would get a letter saying my credit limit was increased, I never asked for this. These credit increases were irresponsible on your part.

 

My low income has been consumed purely on paying your interest and your charges. In the last 5 years I have repeatedly struggled to meet basic necessities, food and utility bills because of the interest and these charges. Despite this I have attempted to make payments.

 

I am now reviewing all terms under which your lending was conducted via numerous accounts to, and with various creditors, with a view to either claiming back unfair charges, miss-sold Payment Protection Insurance, writing off debts, entering into an IVA or going bankrupt.

 

As you are unable to provide the required documentation, and the agreement is therefore unenforceable, I am requesting that you write the debt off.

 

I look forward to a full response to this letter within 14 days and if I do not receive a satisfactory response I intend to pursue my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service at the earliest opportunity.

 

What do you think? Many thanks again.

 

(NB - I have already started getting phonecalls from Barclaycard, and have been avoiding them).

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Look up chargephone numbers - free for you, they pay to call (I used flextel), and write informing them of your change of number. I did this a few years ago, they deleted my home and mobile numbers, now I just get an email saying they've called (I've never listened to the messages). I must have got a few pounds as well, but haven't checked - stopping them calling me was the main point! Before then, even when I wrote demanding they cease calling me and threatened to report them to the cops for harassment, they carried on - it was necessary to change the number.

Great being able to answer my home phone again.

 

One other point - they repeatedly upped my limit without telling me, it was on my statements - but nothing was done to draw my attention to it. Under current practice (which they claim to follow), they have to at least inform you how to stop a rise in the limit - but they never told me this. And I have proof, in the box of papers I received when I SAR'd them last year.

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  • 1 year later...
  • 3 years later...

Hi all, especially BelstarBomb, dx100uk and Conniff - and thanks for the comments all those years ago!

 

Well, to update, this has disappeared for 4 years, and has just raised it's ugly head again! I've just had a letter from a new collection agency, asking for the money. (Standard 'we've been passed your account, please call us to arrange a monthly payment or we can take action).

 

So to update: the last correspondence from Barclaycard was in 2012, and was as follows:

 

 

"Dear Miss Pendleton

 

Re: a/c

 

I refer to your request for information dated 19/05/12.

 

The information we must provide to you under the terms of Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the “Act”) is prescribed by the Act and by the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. Section 78 of the Act provides that, where a creditor receives a Section 78 request, the creditor shall give the debtor a copy of the excited agreement (and any document referred to in it) and a statement of the account.

 

A statement of your account is below:

The current credit limit on your account is £0.00

The current balance on your account today is £4,368.22

 

Due to the current status of your account, the full outstanding balance is now due.

 

We are currently unable to provide a copy of the terms of your credit agreement as varied in accordance with section 82 (1) of the Act. We accept that we are therefore prevented from enforcing our agreement with you while this state of affairs continues.

 

With immediate effect, we have suspected your Barclaycard account. We have taken this action because in our view there is a significantly increased risk that you will cease to make payments to your Barclaycard account. This is a temporary measure which will be kept under review. We have not closed your account.

 

Notwithstanding that we cannot currently enforce the agreement, our rights continue to exist under the agreement. You should therefore continue to pay the debt that has accrued on your account. We can and will continue to take any action short of enforcement, which includes reporting to credit reference agencies without telling them that the agreement is currently unenforceable, demanding payment from you, issuing a default notice to you and instructing a third party to demand payment or otherwise see to procure payment. We refer you to the case of Philip McGuffick v The Royal Bank of Scotland 92009) RWHC 2386 in which it was help that none of these steps constituted “enforcement” for this purpose.

 

Please note that the decision in Carey v HSBC (2009) EWHC 3417QB makes it clear that an unfair relationship cannot be said to have arisen between us as a result of the fact that we have not currently complied with section 78 of the Act. The the extent that you seek to allege that an unfair relationship has arisen, such allegations will be opposed.

 

Karen Moore

Barclaycard Customer Services."

 

Today I called the collection agency and basically read the 'unenforceable' line to them - and they asked me to send a copy - so they've put the account on 'temporary suspension' while I do.

 

Seems there's no way Barclaycard can make me pay this back, but is there any way I can get it to go away? I've still no confirmation if there was PPI on the account...and it still feels like it's hanging over my head. Thankfully I don't need/want to use credit but I'm sure if at some point I wanted to get a mortgage, this is going to screw things right up.

 

Advice really truly appreciated. The fact that there was expert advice the first time around, really made me stop panicking, and I'm in a much better place to be able to deal with this now. Thankfully :)

Thanks in advance.

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well stop ringing powerless dca's

they are not bailiffs

 

 

is this debt still on your credit file

I bet not

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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...further to this....

I've been digging around in old folders,

 

I've found a letter from 2006 where I cancelled 'Cardholder Repayment Insurance' with them (I had realised I didn't want and couldn't afford it.)

 

The account had been open in 2003, and so PPI was running until 2006 when I started to struggle with money...

 

and, although, regrettably I don't have any statements at all

- I do have a letter (just the one) with an unpaid direct debit fee notification of £16.00.

 

I guess, these two things do work as proof of PPI and unfair charges, which, means they definitely owe me money?!

 

 

 

...is this debt still on your credit file

I bet not

 

I've just signed up with ClearScore, and I can't see it in there anywhere - so, no?

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try noddle too

make sure all you old addresses are showing too in linked addresses

if you've moved since taking this out as well

  • Confused 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thank you :)

 

Unfortunately, Noddle can't verify me, (tried twice), and in ClearScore, it only allows 2 previous addresses, neither of which are the address which I was living at when I originally took out the card.... :???::|

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id let this run..

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Lizzie,

 

I no longer live in the UK so don't know how the consumer credit laws may or may not have changed.

 

My initial response would be to let it run.

 

My only concern is that in calling them, you have now confirmed your address which may allow them to apply a DN etc.

 

I personally, would not have responded.

 

If they continue to chase you, if you hadn't claimed your PPI back, I would tell them that as the owners of the debt you will be claiming the PPI back from from them unless they discontinue their action and confirm that no detrimental information will be posted against you at your address.

 

I'm sure the amount you could potentially claim is way more than they paid for the debt......

 

Good luck!

 

Bel

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