I have just gotten out of hospital after several months having being shot in Afghanistan.

I have owed HSBC a credit card debt for about 5 years now but have never had the money to repay it, I have merely serviced the debt for 5 years running. The debt is about £9600. My interest payments were £200 which was all I could afford, eventually I gave up and tried to speak to someone at the bank but of course no one would talk over the phone and if I went into the bank itself they referred me back to the Credit Card arm of HSBC.

At that point, early 2007, I was working in an office when I was called up to go to Afghanistan with the TA. Seeing an opportunity to stop paying rent and save up enough to sort the debt I went. I left the house but did not leave a forwarding address so all of the demands HSBC must have sent me will have arrived after may when I left. They passed the debt on to MCS in September the month I went out to Afghan. Now out of hospital I phoned MCS and they said it has been passed onto CDR.

HSBC gave me a £2300 credit card as a student, and the increased that to £7000. When I started to default they increased it to £8500. That must break some kind of lending criteria. I wouldnt lend a student that money!

As if to further complicate matters when I was mobilised I didnt get paid by the military through May, June and July. I got paid in the middle of August and was living off my girlfriend, so that will have negated any income arriving in my account.

Sorry if I have gone on. But I need to know the best way to take care of this debt, what MCS/CDR can do to me and how I can get this debt back to HSBC to take care of. Crazy thing is now Im back from Afghanistan I can afford to pay the debt.

Please dont waste your time replying to this post please just direct me to anyother relevant posts.

Thanks guys.

Shotters.

Hi Shotters, glad you are feeling better, welcome to CAG, I will be asking someone to come and take a look at this for you

Hiya Shotters, the first thing you need to do is work out how much HSBC have added to your debt in charges and interest on those charges and ask for it back. This should substantially reduce the amount you owe if not totally remove it.

You need copies of your statements to do this, if you don't have them to hand you will need to send off an SAR then follow the steps outlined here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-example-step-step-instructions.html

best of luck

pete

Thanks Guys,

So dont call CDR, call a debt counselling charit to start with.

Request SAR and work out the interest and charges they have applied to the account.

Do I need to let CDR know the debt is in dispute so they dont try to take the CCJ option?

And if I pursue the CCA option I can always offer full and final payment at a later date?

I dont mind the paperwork, I have literally got all the time in the world to take these guys on while I start getting better.

Can anyone direct me to a post that deals with the CCA route or outline it here?

Thanks again guys have a good weekend.

Shotters

Hiya shotters, if you have had no letters from CDR just ignore them until you do. the debt counseling charity would only be interested in setting up a payment plan you could afford so your better to attack the problem yourself.

I would write to Metropolitan stating you dispute the total debt as you know unlawful charges have been included within this sum and you are currently investigating the exact values.

Write the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to HSBC to get your statements.

And as this is a credit card debt yes send a CCA section 78 request letter to both Metropolitan and HSBC to see what documentation they actually have. this isn't an alternative route its a set of regulations that if they have broken you can add to your arguments.

here's the CCA thread. its massive but had loads of good info.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/33174-consumer-credit-act-agreements.html

pete

One slight point is that because I have been away for so long all of the Correspondence from HSBC/MCS/CDR has gone to my old address. This is why the debt was passed to MCS/CDR in the first place because of a lack of communication. HSBC thought I had done a runner which wasn't the case.

So I have no correspondance from anyone and was going to set-up a mailbox so that I can correspond with them so that I dont have to suffer them visiting my relatives addresses.

If this changes anything, just let me know or Ill follow the programme of action outlined above.

Thanks,

Shotters.

Are you saying that there is no-one currently pursuing you for payment on this account ? Don't worry about a mailbox account... they won't visit you.

If CDR have the account, then the CCA request goes to them (by rec. delivery). What does CDR stand for, by they way ?

Oh !! You must mean CAPQUEST Debt Recovery ??

CCA them immediately (by rec. delivery) if they get in touch with you.... sounds like the debts been sold on.

CDR is Central Debt Recovery an inhouse collection agency owned by HSBC I think.

They are pursuing me but dont know where I am. Can I have a CCJ made against me in my absence?

CDR is a trading style of Metropolitan Collection Services, who are themselves part of HSBC. It's effectively no more than a letterhead they use.

Incidentally, did you make a formal complaint under AGAI 70 about your pay? You should be able to get the creatures at APC to pay any bank charges you incurred as a result of their (usual) inefficiency. I'm sure, though, that you'll be claiming them all back from HSBC...

Well it looks like you could have a problem with the correspondence your missing for the period you were in Afghanistan but I think the main thing to do is get your claim rolling as soon as possible to make sure the balance of your account is well and truly in dispute.

As far as a CCJ is concerned they would have had to issue proceedings against you in the county courts and without an address for you this would have been difficult and also pointless because they wouldn't have been able to enforce a CCJ against you if they don't know where you are.

Again with a claim against them on the table it will add to your defence if/when they do find out where you are and commence recovery proceedings.

If they have managed to get a CCJ against you in your absence, I think you should be able to appeal against it and have it set aside but you will have to wait and see what they send you when they learn your address.

pete

Hey Guys,

This is the letter Ill send to CDR the debt recovery unit of HSBC. Ill then follow it up with A subject Access Request and a CCA Section 78 letter.

I have nt applied to the military to get the bank charges back I thought Id claim them back in one hit from HSBC.

Any advice on this letter would be appreciated, Ill send it out this afternoon or tomorrow morning together with the SAR and CCA 78 letters.

Hope you guys had a good weekend,

Shotters

CDRU

PO Box 4093

Worthing

West Sussex

BN11 2RD

8th January 2008

Your Reference:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to give an overview of a conversation I had with one of your staff, “Helen”, yesterday concerning my account.

I told Helen that I became aware of this debt last Thursday (the 3rd January 2008). Prior to then I had neither received any mail correspondence from HSBC or indeed MCS/CDRU concerning this matter. I only became aware of this when I enquired about the account when using HSBC telephone banking.

Last year when this debt was passed from MCS to CDRU I was in Afghanistan and was not due back until April 2008. I returned injured in November and spent several months in hospital. As a result I am in between hospital and rehabilitation and have no fixed address. You may correspond with me at the above address, however any phone calls or visits by your employees or labour you may have contracted will be viewed as harassment and reported to the ombudsman.

I am currently in dialogue with HSBC trying to understand how this debt was allowed to escalate.

I am fully committed to resolving this matter and would be very happy for you to communicate with me by post.

For the sake of posterity, your employee, Helen mentioned that the account could be paused for 2 Weeks “Max.

She also said that I could be charged for letters that you sent me.

Finally she mentioned that by withholding my telephone number I was being uncooperative.

I will be deciding how to pursue this matter in the next few days and will write to you to advise what this course of action is.

Yours Sincerely,

Good letter.

I would certainly ask them to confirm 'Helen's' statement about charges for letters, because such charges will almost certainly be a breach of the OFT guidelines.

Hi Guys,

The letter below went today to Central Debt Recovery and the SAR request below that went to HSBC, MCS and CDR to keep them all busy.

CDRU

PO Box 4093

Worthing

West Sussex

BN11 2RD

9th January 2008

Your Reference:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to give an overview of a conversation I had with one of your staff, “Helen”, on Monday the 7th of January 2007 concerning my account.

I told Helen that I became aware of this debt last Thursday (the 3rd January 2008). Prior to then I had neither received any mail correspondence from HSBC or indeed MCS/CDRU concerning this matter. I only became aware of this when I enquired about the account when using HSBC telephone banking. As a result you should be aware that this debt is in dispute.

Last year I was in Afghanistan and was not due back until April 2008. I returned injured in November and spent several months in hospital. As a result I am in between hospital and rehabilitation and have no fixed address. You may correspond with me at the above address, however any phone calls or visits by your employees or labour you may have contracted will be viewed as harassment and reported to the ombudsman.

I am fully committed to resolving this matter and would be very happy for you to communicate with me by post.

For the sake of posterity, your employee, Helen mentioned that the account could be paused for 2 Weeks “Max”.

She also said that I could be charged for letters that you sent me.

Finally she mentioned that by withholding my telephone number I was being uncooperative.

Can you please confirm under what circumstances you would be legally entitled to charge me for letters that you may send me.

I will be deciding how to pursue this matter in the next few days and will write to you to advise what this course of action is.

Yours Sincerely,

Group Data Protection Manager

HSBC PLC

8 Canada Square

London

E14 5HQ

9th January 2008

Dear Sir/Madam

ACCOUNT NUMBER:

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

Yours faithfully,

Plan after this will be to wait for the SARs to run their course while I swat up on making a CCA request. In the meantime I have calculated that HSBC owe me for illegal charges applied to my current account so will be taking them to court for that as well. Going to be swatting up on that tonight.

Thanks for giving me the impetus, knowledge and experience to get this one moving guys!

Shotters

Well done shotters and good luck, any questions you have or anything you are not sure about just ask here and one of us will be along to point you in the right direction

pete

' Evening Pete, the lad's doing well isn't he? With determination like that he'll be OK .

Stick with it Shotters! The end result should be well worth the effort!

You will get there Shotters - after what you have been through these lot should be a breeze:o.

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all your help I have paid off one Credit Card, Sent out 5 SARs to diffent lenders and am pursuing my bank and credit card providers as a result of all the knowledge I've picked up from this site, so thanks.

And it is actually quite alot of fun. I'm incredibly lucky to be able to devote the time to this, I could never have done this if I was working.

Had some replies to all of the SARs that I sent off. HSBC sent back the £10 Postal Order saying they'd send the stuff on.

Never heard anything from MCS. I recieved a reply to the SAR from CDRU who didn't acknowledge that it was a Subject Access Request. They just thanked me for the payment and showed the balance had reduced by £10 and asked me to arrange payment within 10 days. So the cheeky gits took the SAR payment.

Then the reply to the CDRU SAR was as above, £10 deducted from the outstanding balance to them and a request for me to arrange payment in 10 days.

On top of this the letter outlining my situation was acknowledged and they said they'd give me until 11th February to sort out payment.

HSBC responded to the SAR and have given me the documents.

MCS didn't even respond (although I know that CDRU is a trading style of MCS so technically they may have done)

CDRU responded but didn't acknowledge my SAR letter or indicate that they would make any effort to comply with it.

CDRU recieved the SAR on the 11th of January.

Will they be in breach of the SAR?

Does the fact that HSBC have responded with details affect CDRU's obligation to comply with the SAR?

Should I send a S78 CCA request or wait until the SAR process has taken its course?

I can post the letters if you like but couldn't immediately see how to do so...

Thanks for your help guys,

Round 2.

Shotters.

Right shotters, I'll try my best to answer some of your queries - might need someone else to chip in as well

1. Anyone to whom you have sent a SAR has 40 days to comply with this request. I would wait to see if they all produce these. If you wrote to 2 bodies within the same framework ,it doesn't matter - they are both bound to produce for the particular account you asked for.....

2. I would give them 2 days to have received your SAR request ,from date of posting, then add 40 days to that date. If they haven't produced - report them! They know the law ,so there's no excuse.........however ,if you're feeling kind hearted ,send them a reminder (about a week before) of when the 40 days is up, referring to your original letter ( which they haven't seen fit to respond to......

3. If your account is in dispute - and it must be or you wouldn't be asking for a SAR - you should let those asking for payment know (by recorded delivery letter, of course) that the account is in dispute and until the correct amount owing is settled you cannot make any payment.

I'll leave you with that for the moment shotters, - if anyone else would like to enlarge or comment - please feel free........

Best of Luck, Mate,

I'm ex-service myself........

Thanks Johnny Mitch,

Its been 27 days since they recieved the letter, as acknowledged by them, so I'll have a think about a reminder but I think I'd rather they breached the SAR.

MCS keep very little by way of records, and a SAR is unlikely to be very revealing. I SAR'd HSBC, and included subsidiaries including MCS and DG Solicitors. All MCS produced, after HSBC's data compliance team chased them, was a single sheet of A4 with a list of dates and template letters sent and alls. Apparently it's all computerised and any letters requiring an individual response are done by DG.

However, since MCS/CDRU are ignoring the SAR, let them run out of time and then complain to ICO.

Way to go SP ! Let them find out the hard way that the law does apply to them too -

Its also useful with credit cards and loans to send a CCA section 78 request just to see what sort of contract they actually have for your account, its amazing how often this is showing they don't actually comply with the Consumer Credit Act and gives you so much more ammunition against them.

pete

Right, slightly odd update...

When I sent a SAR to MCS and CDRU I used a card number that HSBC telephone banking gave me. It turns out that this is a new credit card number that I have never heard of and when I signed and double checked the S.78 letter today I realised that CDRU are pursuing me for a debt regarding a different account number yet I called HSBC regarding each and they have two records of apparently the same debt.

One on a card number I have always had and another on a card number which I have never heard of... the plot thickens...

So wondering were this card came from, which I have never heard of I went through security on telephone banking which showed it was registered to me with my details and then through to some chap who transfered me to MCS. But I never opened this account.

So now I realise that I have sent two SARs citing incorrect numbers which must invalidate them and will have to re-send them and give them another £20 ontop of the money that went already.

However they may have acted fraudulently by accepting money that was destined for another account which they are not acting on and have not pursued me for. Also to make matters worse the bloke at HSBC transfered me straight to MCS which may mean that MCS have access to all my financil information... who knows? Not me.

So plan is to send S78s for both Credit Card numbers, to HSBC and CDRU and to resend the SAR to CDRU with the correct account number.

Have they commited fraud by accepting money destined for another account?

In theory you only need to send one SAR to any company no matter how many accounts you have with them. The SAR asks for ALL information they hold about you so this will encompass both the account you knew about and this new number that has come to light.

Just drop them a line saying the new number that you were not aware of has come to light and you want this added to your SAR request.

pete