gary vs natwest ** WON **

[windymiller2014]

hi all

i am a newbie, currently sorting out barclays for my girlfriend (seperate thread for barclays) and NatWest for me.

both sets of statement recieved currently getting prelim ready for both

In this thread i will stick to mine NatWest.

 

Charges so far calculated £1818.00 and going for compound contractual interest.

 

If i can just say Vamps spreadies are brill and well worth a look.

 

All help greatly appreciated... ttfn

[windymiller2014]

hi everyone

 

Hope you all had a lovely Christmas, now let the fun begin with NatWest

 

prelim ready for posting on the 8th Jan 2007, can someone just check it for me, all help greatlty appreciated

 

thanks

 

What I require

I calculate that, as at today’s date, you have taken a total of £1818.00 in charges. In addition, I also claim Contractual Interest (compounded) under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity in our contract. As Natwest Bank has taken unlawful charges from my account, this constitutes unauthorised borrowing – thus, the rate of Contractual Interest used is the bank’s unauthorised borrowing rate. The standard rate of unauthorised borrowing set by Natwest Bank is 29.65%, therefore this rate is added to the above amounts and the breakdown is shown on the enclosed schedule. I calculate the Contractual Interest element to 8th January 2007 at £1934.39. Therefore the total amount owed as of today’s date is £3752.39. Please be aware interest is accruing on a daily basis.

Furthermore, any offers of partial goodwill payments will be accepted only on the basis that it is in lieu of the full amount and is NOT considered to be a FULL and FINAL.

[Guest NATTIE]

Welcome to the CAG and please edit your letter from the above post as the template letters are for registered users. Good Luck and make sure you send the Prelim to Customer Relations Unit Borehamwood or Bishopsgate address.

 

Letter sounds good to me

[windymiller2014]

edited down a req

 

thanks natweststaffmember

[windymiller2014]

can anyone tell me, can natwest recall agreed overdrafts during a claim

[Guest NATTIE]

they can but it is unlikely

[windymiller2014]

does anyone know

my prelim quotes 14 days to respond, does 14 days mean working days or does it include weekends

 

thanks

[Guest NATTIE]

14 straight days so if today then 17th January

[windymiller2014]

thankyou natweststaffmember thats it for now, I am working on my lba

 

many thanks

[windymiller2014]

VAMPIRESS AND MINDZAI SHEETS

 

I was just doing a final check today on spread sheets and have noted that maybe, some formulas are wrong using the above authors sheets. I Downloaded v18 of mindzai and vamps compounded contractual interest just before christmas, both sheets gave the same answer which was good, however, I loaded a new vamp compounded contractual today submitting the same figures and got a different answer. the formulas to question in vamps sheet are:

to day showing =(B13*(1+($B$7/365))^($B$6-C13))-B13

before christmas showing =(B13*(1+$B$7)^(($B$6-C13)/365))-B13

 

Have vamps sheets been updated or is something wrong

[windymiller2014]

Hi everyone, does anyone know how to edit Basic Account Customer under your your name

 

Gary

[windymiller2014]

Found the answer

The basic account customer on here relates to how many time you have posted on here, not the type of account you have with the bank.

 

[windymiller2014]

Ive been reading lots of threads regarding mcol and N1, and how important it is to take your time and get things right. I am claiming compounded contractual interest, can anyone point me in the right direction regarding particulars of claim for the above, so i may start preparing. Its the wording regarding componded contractual for the claim that i need. Mindzai's looks good, not sure how that fits with natwest.

 

All help is greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Gary:)

[Michael Browne]

Here's an alternative, although I'm sure Mindzai's can be amended to suit:

 

The Claimant also claims interest at a rate of xx%, from the date of each transaction to (date of claim) of £xxxxxx, as set out in the attached list of charges. The claimant further claims interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £xxxxx per day.

 

 

Defendant charges interest to the Claimant, via the Account, at its published “unarranged overdraft rate” of 29.84%. The Defendant claims that it is entitled to charge this rate, by virtue of the Terms & Conditions.

 

The unarranged overdraft rate is charged to the Claimant, via the Account, when the Claimant draws money from the Account whilst he has not obtained permission from the Defendant for exceeding any overdraft limit that he has. It is in effect, a rate that the Defendant charges the Claimant when he draws funds from the Defendant when he has no right for doing so.

 

Using, that reasoning and maintaining the principal of equity, mutuality and reciprocity between the parties, the Claimant contends that he is entitled to an equal rate of interest in this case. The Claimant notes in particular that the Defendant erred in law, had no legal right to levy the charges to the Account and refused to refund the Charges when asked to do so by the Claimant.

 

. If the Terms and Conditions form part of contract between the parties hereto then there is an implied and/or imposed term of contract that the Defendant must pay the Claimant at the same rate of interest which it reserves for itself, in similar circumstances. If no express contract exists between the parties hereto then the Claimant contends that an implied and/or imposed contract exists between the parties hereto relating solely to the Claimant’s right to charge interest to the Defendant at the rate which it reserves for itself in relation to similar circumstances.

 

 

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then as an alternative the Claimant wishes to claim interest pursuant to section 69.....etc..."

[windymiller2014]

Thankyou Michael.

[windymiller2014]

This probally is the one I will use if it comes to it. Can anyone pull and holes in it, or advise me, I am claiming componded contractual interest.

 

I gather this does not fit onto the N1 form so stapling it as an attachment is ok? I have considered MCOL, but reading other posts, fitting it in on line is not practical.

 

Gary........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. The Claimant has an account xxxxxxxx ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around [DATE].

 

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimants understand that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimants.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account, as outlined in the attached schedule, are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimants; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. In the event that the charges are not a penalty, they are unreasonable under The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 section 15. The Defendant has declined to justify the charges.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) paragraph 8 and schedule 2(1)(e), The Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 section 4 and the common law.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £xxxxx

 

b) Court costs.

 

c) the additional costs incurred by the Claimant in the writing and sending of letters to the Defendant pursuant to this claim in the sum of £xxxx, as set out in the attached list of costs.

 

d) the Claimant claims contractual interest at a rate of xx.xx% per annum, from the date of each transaction to xth February 2007, which is £xxx.xx, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimant further claims interest, on the resulting total of £xxx.xx, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £x.xx per day.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on unauthorised drawings from the account. The Claimant hold that this applies to unauthorised drawings by the Defendant as well as to unauthorised drawings by the Claimant. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimant claim the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s unauthorised overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimant claims contractual interest at a rate of xx.x%, from the date of each transaction to xth February 2007, which is £xxx.xx, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimant further claims interest, on the resulting total of £xxx.xx, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £x.xx per day.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on authorised drawings from the account. The Claimant hold that this applies to authorised drawings by the Defendant as well as to authorised drawings by the Claimant. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimant claims the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s authorised overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimant claims interest under Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum calculated from xrd November 2000 to xth February 2007, which is £xxx.xx and continuing until payment or the date of judgement at a daily rate of £x.xx.

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

[Michael Browne]

c) the additional costs incurred by the Claimant in the writing and sending of letters to the Defendant pursuant to this claim in the sum of £xxxx, as set out in the attached list of costs

 

Under the 'no costs' principle of small claims track, you can't claim these. Should you ever actually get to court these may be awarded at the discretion of the judge.

 

We believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

 

 

Is this for a joint a/c? If so you can claim in just 1 name or if you want to claim in both names every 'Claimant' should be 'Claimants' and verbs will have to be changed too.

 

In Particulars of Claim put 'See attached sheet'

[windymiller2014]

Recieved letter this morning it reads:

 

Dear xx xxx

 

Thankyou for your letter dated xx regarding charges applied to your account.

We are currently considering your claim and will respond to you as soon as possible.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Stuart Higley

Customer Relations.

[windymiller2014]

My final draft. I am only doing this because I am doing my girlfriends as well at the same time and i want to be prepared.

 

1. The Claimant has an account a/c no ("the Account") with the Defendant which was opened on or around March 1999.

 

2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimants understand that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimants.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim. See attached sheet.

 

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account, as outlined in the attached schedule, are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimants; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. In the event that the charges are not a penalty, they are unreasonable under The Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 section 15. The Defendant has declined to justify the charges.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) paragraph 8 and schedule 2(1)(e), The Unfair Contracts Terms Act 1977 section 4 and the common law.

 

5. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £1846.00

 

b) Court costs.

 

c) the Claimant claims contractual interest at a rate of 29.69% per annum, from the date of each transaction to 7th February 2007, which is £2508.79, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimant further claims interest, on the resulting total of £4354.79, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £1.35 per day.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on unauthorised drawings from the account. The Claimant hold that this applies to unauthorised drawings by the Defendant as well as to unauthorised drawings by the Claimant. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimant claim the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s unauthorised overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimant claims contractual interest at a rate of 19.99%, from the date of each transaction to 7th February 2007, which is £958.95, as set out in the attached list of charges. The Claimant further claims interest, on the resulting total of £2804.95, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £1.01 per day.

 

The account’s Terms and Conditions specify the interest payable on authorised drawings from the account. The Claimant hold that this applies to authorised drawings by the Defendant as well as to authorised drawings by the Claimant. Should the court deem this incorrect, the Claimant claims the rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on the Defendant’s authorised overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account.

 

Should the court find that this interest rate is not applicable, then in the alternative the Claimant claims interest under Section 69 of the County Court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum calculated from 29th September 2000 to 7th February 2007, which is £369.16 and continuing until payment or the date of judgement at a daily rate of £0.40.

 

I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true.

[windymiller2014]

Does anyone know when filling the N1 under the heading Value what to write if you are claiming compounded contractual interst.

 

I have read the faq and looked at bankfodders how to fill in thread, not sure if it relates to a compound contractual claim.

 

Gary

 

ps. all help is much appreciated.

[Michael Browne]

The Claimant further claims interest, on the resulting total of £2804.95, at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment, at a daily rate of £101.10 per day

 

Now that's what I call a decent daily rate!!!!

[windymiller2014]

Thankyou Michael, well spotted, what a berk i feel, just goes to prove that this site works,

[windymiller2014]

Hi, sending my L.B.A Tuesday, just thought i would keep my post up to date

 

Gary...

[windymiller2014]

Hi everyone,

 

Its looking like I will be filling my N1 on Wednesday 7 Feb, now the scarey part starts.

 

Just a couple of questions, when filling the N1, other than a schedule of charges, and my poc is there anything else to be filed with it.

 

I also am stuck with what to write under the heading value on the N1 as I am giving the court three alternatives, compounded contractual, contractual, or s69. Do I just put see attached?

[Michael Browne]

Put the highest amount ie compounded contracual. Thats what you're claiming, the others are in the alternative if the judge doesn't agree with you.