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      Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.
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Phantom vs HSBC -- after the Judgement

The Phantom

By The Phantom
in HSBC Bank

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The Phantom

The Phantom

Posted
Posted

Ok, after my claim has been stayed for almost 2 years, I followed the first advise posted on the site here in November after the High Court judgement and asked the stay to be lifted. I used a template letter that was posted on the site here and sent to my local county court end of November:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

I refer to my claim number xxx for the refund of bank charges dated ../../08, which was stayed on xx.xx.2008

I understand that the Judicial Press Office has advised Claimants to write and request a lifting of their stayed claim.

As my claim for Bank Charges is brought under Regulation 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, and is therefore not affected by the recent Supreme Court Judgement, in fact the Supreme Court has indicated that a challenge to "fairness" of my Banking Contract under Regulation 5 may be an appropriate route to take.

 

I therefore request that the stay be lifted, that any necessary directions be given, and that a date be listed for a hearing of my claim.

 

I also informed HSBC about the fact that I requested the stay to be lifted.

The court received my letter (sent recorded) 26.11.09

I have heard nothing so far.

HSBC replied by thanking me for my complaint about bank charges and they would get back to me, which they haven't either, but I am not worried about that.

How long until the court should reply and should I be doing anything else ?

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

Hi phantom , your query seems to have slipped through the net , but here goes :

 

In my opinion , (because my son did exactly the same) , I would try to head the court off at the pass as far as lifting the stay is concerned ... tell them you're waiting for further legal advice ...and can they ignore your request if nothing has been set in motion to lift it ......

 

The reason I say this is that in a few days (hopefully) our legal guys will have decided on a way forward which I'm not sure about yet ,,,,,, but if you read the following link ,I think you'll get the gist of my reasoning ...

 

The Consumer Forums - Announcements in Forum : HSBC Bank

 

Come back if you've any further doubts though .. and we'll try to address them .. :D

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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The Phantom

The Phantom

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As the court has not replied to me since end of November, I think I might wait until Tuesday:

 

Oft will be making an annnouncement at 7am Tuesday 22nd (allegedly)

 

OFT sets date for announcement on its next bank charges move - MoneySavingExpert News

 

and then send this letter (from another thread)

 

''Following the recent judgment by the Supreme Court (25th November 2009) Case [2009] UKSC 6 (On appeal from: [2009] EWCA Civ 116 ) it is extremely likely that further litigation will follow, either between the OFT and the defendant or otherwise to generally decide the issues. I therefore respectfully submit that it would be appropriate for the Court toapply/continue a general stay in this claim pending resolution of the issues raised.''

Would that be sensible ?

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

Nice one Phantom...... thanks for the info ... :) and the suggested letter if anyone else has jumped the gun ........ :D

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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The Phantom

The Phantom

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Well, as the OFT appears to have officially thrown the towel, I think there is no point in sending the letter as suggested above.

Might as well let it run now.

I suppose the claim will be struck out.

 

I am not at all hopeful anymore

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Long Lex

Long Lex

Posted
Posted

Hi Phantom.

 

I know am new here, i'm just starting out.

 

My dad made me read though this site and all his old paper work before he would let me start. What they have said to me sounds like the old 'clear and transparnt' stuff they used to say to put you off.

 

As soon as the new pocs come out, i'm going to make my claim. From what my dad says not much has changed since then for the banks.

 

Nick

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The Phantom

The Phantom

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Yep. that would be the best course of action if you haven't got a claim in the system yet.

But mine has been stayed since April 2008 and I think it will be struck out before the new POCs are released.

And I also think (just my opinion) that banks after their recent victory will be more inclined to actually defend cases in court through their legal departments and if things go head to head in a county court I cannot see Jo Public coming out the winner.

No matter what the new POCs state, I can't see a CC judge actually reading them and taking them in. They will just side with the banks after the High Court ruling.

I can't see any refunds coming from banks now

Sorry, but after the OFT fiasco it is just what I think right now

:sad:

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

Try to stay positive Phantom ... this is what the banks want - why they're trying everything to dishearten people ... with the flood of template letters landing on doorsteps .... many will just give up ...

 

Personally I think this is such a big issue , concerning so many people , and with an election looming.... that MPs just might want to get onboard for votes .....maybe worth a tug on those who have already indicated support for the claimants..... :rolleyes:

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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The Phantom

The Phantom

Posted
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Try to stay positive Phantom ... this is what the banks want - why they're trying everything to dishearten people ... with the flood of template letters landing on doorsteps .... many will just give up ...

 

Personally I think this is such a big issue , concerning so many people , and with an election looming.... that MPs just might want to get onboard for votes .....maybe worth a tug on those who have already indicated support for the claimants..... :rolleyes:

 

Got a letter from my local court today, stating His Honour Judge XXX has directed that the matter can now be listed to be heard before him, providing I give written reasons as to why the stay should be lifted and pay the £75.- fee !!

The reasons I already gave in my previous letter, but why do I have to pay £75.- to lift a stay the court itself put in place due to the test case.

This is ridiculous

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

Right Phantom , :)

 

I would write to the court , point out that they stay was imposed by application from HSBC (the defendant) and that any fee for the lifting should be at their expense not yours ....

 

I would also request that , for the time being , the stay should remain in place, to enable further legal advice to be obtained as a result of the Supreme Courts recent ruling .... and that any hearing be postponed until a later date (possibly 3 months ?)

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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The Phantom

The Phantom

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Right Phantom , :)

 

I would write to the court , point out that they stay was imposed by application from HSBC (the defendant) and that any fee for the lifting should be at their expense not yours ....

 

I would also request that , for the time being , the stay should remain in place, to enable further legal advice to be obtained as a result of the Supreme Courts recent ruling .... and that any hearing be postponed until a later date (possibly 3 months ?)

 

 

The court itself imposed the stay actually. Neither me nor HSBC did.

They automatically stayed all claims on their own initiative.

To now ask me to pay £75.- to lift the stay is jaw dropping....

But I will after Christmas write to them and ask the stay stays in place for the moment as I am seeking further legal advice which may lead to me having to change my POC shortly...

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted

I thought the banks asked for all claims at court to be stayed .. but I may be wrong ....

 

However , have a look at Pete Castlebest's thread - it may give you a lead to the letter you want .........

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/85633-castlebest-ii-return-claims-31.html#post2664368

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Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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The Phantom

The Phantom

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I thought the banks asked for all claims at court to be stayed .. but I may be wrong ....

 

However , have a look at Pete Castlebest's thread - it may give you a lead to the letter you want .........

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/85633-castlebest-ii-return-claims-31.html#post2664368

 

 

No, the court did. HSBC never actually reacted at all

A few days after filing the claim I got a two-page standard letter saying the court is staying all claims due to the test case with a lengthy explanation as to what the test case is

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The Phantom

The Phantom

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I thought the banks asked for all claims at court to be stayed .. but I may be wrong ....

 

However , have a look at Pete Castlebest's thread - it may give you a lead to the letter you want .........

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/85633-castlebest-ii-return-claims-31.html#post2664368

 

I like the letter .considering I got a silly one from HSBC a few days ago , gloating about their victory in the test case and just saying their solicitors will be handling any pending legal cases

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The Phantom

The Phantom

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I like the letter .considering I got a silly one from HSBC a few days ago , gloating about their victory in the test case and just saying their solicitors will be handling any pending legal cases

 

Actually, my letter is also dated 18.12., incidentally.

They must have bulk mailed that stuff

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citizenB

citizenB

Posted
Posted

Mine was dated 18th as well :)

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johnnymitch

johnnymitch

Posted
Posted (edited)

It was the only way to conform after the FSA waiver was lifted.... the banks had to reply to about a million 'on hold' claims in 8 weeks ..... :rolleyes:

 

Hence the multi -post Templates ...

 

btw - thanks for the enlightenment Phantom .... I thought the banks were initally behind the 'stays' ..... that they had to apply in the first place ... I stand corrected ..........:-)

Edited by johnnymitch

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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The Phantom

The Phantom

Posted
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It was the only way to conform after the FSA waiver was lifted.... the banks had to reply to about a million 'on hold' claims in 8 weeks ..... :rolleyes:

 

Hence the multi -post Templates ...

 

btw - thanks for the enlightenment Phantom .... I thought the banks were initally behind the 'stays' ..... that they had to apply in the first place ... I stand corrected ..........:-)

 

To be honest, I think in some cases it might have been the banks that requested a stay, but when I filed my claim in 2008 my local county court already stayed all bank charges claims automatically on their own initiative without the relevant defending bank having to apply for it.

So mine was received by the court and then immediately stayed.

HSBC never even reacted to it in any way, they didn't have to

But in courts where cases were not stayed automatically I think banks were applying for stays

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The Phantom

The Phantom

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On Tuesday I will be posting the letter to HSBC as suggested on the other thread.

A copy will go to the court with following covering letter

 

 

HMCS

County Court

XXX

 

Attn.: Mrs XXX / Claims Section

 

dated, 29.12.09

 

Re: XXXX–v- HSBC Bank plc

Case No XXXXX

Your letter dated 23.12.09

 

Dear Mrs XXXX

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 23.12.09 reference the above mentioned case.

 

As the case was stayed neither on application by the defendant nor on application by the claimant, but on the Court’s own initiative due to the High Court Test case between the OFT and seven High Street Banks, it would appear incorrect to now ask the claimant to pay a fee to lift this stay.

 

There really should be no fee involved for lifting this stay as the High Court case has now been concluded so I wonder whether this fee is likely to be reviewed by the Court.

 

Having taken further legal advice on this matter, it is now likely that I will have to amend my Particulars of Claim, as well.

I have informed the Defendant of my intentions and a copy of my letter is attached for the Court’s information.

 

So once I have put together my new POCs I will submit these to the Court together with a request to have the stay set aside and the dispute listed for hearing.

 

Could you please confirm whether the Court will insist on a fee from the claimant to set aside the stay put in place by the court itself.

 

With best regards

XXXXX

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yourbank

yourbank

Posted
Posted

Phantom - just because I can't see it what were the terms of the original stay and directions with it (ie the order from the court informing you of the stay)

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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The Phantom

The Phantom

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Phantom - just because I can't see it what were the terms of the original stay and directions with it (ie the order from the court informing you of the stay)

 

It was a pre-printed letter that would have been bulk-mailed to all claimants.

It explained over one page what the test case was and towards the end it said:

 

In the circumstances, the designated Civil Judge for Devon & Cornwall is anxious that parties to individual claims in Devon and Cornwall are not put to unnecessary costs until the outcome of the Commercial Court litigation is known. Terefore, in relation to your claim he has made an order on the court's own motion that the case be stayed with immediate effect pending the ultimate outcome of the Commercial Court litigation (including any appeals that may be made).

In any case the judge will issue further directions in this case once the Commercial Court litigation has been determined

 

(that was from April last year)

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berrylover

berrylover

Posted
Posted

Hello Phantom,

 

Can you link to a copy of the letter that you enclosed with your letter to the courts (the one you say you have sent to HSBC) as I cannot find that one.

 

Thanks

Beating the DCA's day by day

 

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Time flies like an arrow

Fruit flies like a banana :D

 

<---------- Have I given you top advice, have I made you laugh, click on the scales, it won't hurt you! :grin:

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The Phantom

The Phantom

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Hello Phantom,

 

Can you link to a copy of the letter that you enclosed with your letter to the courts (the one you say you have sent to HSBC) as I cannot find that one.

 

Thanks

 

It is the one Jonnymitch quoted in post number 12 in this thread

Castlebest II - Return To The Claims

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The Phantom

The Phantom

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the designated Civil Judge for Devon & Cornwall is anxious that parties to individual claims in Devon and Cornwall are not put to unnecessary costs

 

I just read that again and it made me chuckle.

So having my best interests in mind and to save me money he stays the case for years and then asks me to cough up £75.- to lift it :lol:

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