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    • just to be clear here..... the DVLA do not send letters if a drivers licence address differs from any car's V5C that shows the same driver as it's registered keeper.
    • sorry she is a private individual, the cars are parking on her land. she can clamp the cars. only firms were outlawed from doing it bazza. thats what the victims of people dumping cars on their drives near airports did and they didn't not get prosecuted.    
    • The DVLA keeps two records of you. One as a driver and one for your car. If they differ you might find out in around a month when they will send you a reminder as well as to your other half for their car. If you receive nothing then you can be fairly sure that you were tailgating though wouldn't explain why they didn't pick up your car on one of drive past their cameras. However even if you do get a PCN later then your situation will not change. The current PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 which is the main law that covers private parking. It doesn't comply for two reasons. 1. Section 9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN states 47 minutes which are the arrival and departure times not the time you were actually parked. if you subtract the time you took to drive from the entrance. look for a parking place  park in it perhaps having to manoeuvre a couple of times to fit within the lines and unload the children reloading the children getting seat belts on  driving to the exit stopping for cars pedestrians on the way you may well find that the actual time you were parked was quite likely to be around ten minutes over the required time.  Motorists are allowed a MINIMUM of ten minutes Grace period [something that the rogues in the parking industry conveniently forget-the word minimum] . So it could be that you did not overstay. 2] Sectio9 [2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN does not include the words in brackets and in 2a the Act included the word "must". Another fail. What those failures mean is that MET cannot transfer the liability to pay the charge from the driver to the keeper. Only the driver is now liable which is why we recommend our members not to appeal. It is so easy to reveal who was driving by saying "when I parked the car" than "when the driver parked the car".  As long as they don't know who was driving they have little chance of winning in court. This is partly because Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person. And because anyone with a valid motor insurance policy is able to drive your cars. It is a shame that you are too far away to get photos of the car park signage. It is often poor and quite often the parking rogues lose in Court on their poor signage alone. I hope hat you can now relax and not panic about the PCN. You will receive many letters from Met, their unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors threatening you with ever higher amounts of money. The poor dears have never read the Act which states quite clearly that the maximum sum that can be charged is the amount on the signs. The Act has only been in force for 12 years so it may take a  few more years for the penny to drop.  You can safely ignore everything they send you unless or until they send you a Letter of Claim. Just come back to us if they do send one of those love letters to you and we will advise on a snotty letter to send them. In the meantime go on and enjoy your life. Continue reading other threads and if you do get any worrying letters let us know. 
    • Hopefully the ANPR cameras didn't pick up the two vehicles, but I don't think you're out of the woods just yet. MET's "work" consists of sending out hundreds of these invoices every week so yours might be a few days behind your partner's. There is also the matter of Royal Mail.  I once sold two second-hand books to someone on eBay.  Weirdly the cost of sending them separately was less than the cost of sending them in one parcel.  So to save a few bob I sent them seperately.  One turned up the next day.  One arrived after four days.  They were  sent from the same post office at the same time! But let's hope I'm being too pessimistic. Please update us of any developments.
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Skem vs Lloyds TSB/Sechari


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After a bit of faffing about I have recieved the following application form and T & C's [obviously microfiched] as copied below in response to my CCA request to LLoyds [via Sechari Clark Mitchell]

 

A few issues that struck me and I'd appreciate some advice on are:

 

1] It's titled Asset Advance Application Form and Agreement; this is obviously intended to operate as an agreement as well as an app form so it's fair to assume no other executed agreement exists. does this titleing though lend more weight to the document when it comes to enforceability?

 

2] The terms and conditions are originally overleaf- the declaration in this bottom right clearly states this. Does this also lend the document more credence?

 

3] Interestingly the bank signature date doesn't have a full date shown on it- just 20/7. A technicality, but is it important?

 

4] T and C's standard stuff showing interest rate etc but as I've been niggled about on other t and c's, it just says with regard to credit limit 'to be agreed and advised' effectively. Does this satisfy the relevant prescribed term?

 

Any thoughts welcome!

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww74/Skemster_2009/lloydsTandCs.jpg

 

http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww74/Skemster_2009/lloydsapplicform.jpg

Edited by SkemDosser
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If that is front and back then all the prescribed terms are there, therefore it is enforceable. Not what you wanted to hear :(

 

In amongst the T&C's they have stated they will "set the credit limit for the account from time to time and notify you". They can do this :(

 

I don't know how much weight the date being incorrect would have to be honest.

 

Someone else may have a different opinion though.

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Thanks clemma if it went to court though wouldn't they have to produce the original? This is obviously a microfiche copy so original probably doesn't exist, is that of any relevance? Just curious for general knowledge purposes lol

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Yes, they should produce the original in court. Remember though, the Judge's decision is final, and if the Judge is satisfied with a microfiche copy........(sounds a tad unfair, I know).

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Yes, they should produce the original in court. Remember though, the Judge's decision is final, and if the Judge is satisfied with a microfiche copy........(sounds a tad unfair, I know).

Thanks again, I wouldn't expect it to go that far, I'm long term unemployed and with no assets to speak of so if this agreement is kosher, it might be worth just asking for a write off.

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There is a letter you can send asking them to consider writing off the debt. Amend to suit.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Acc/Ref No

 

Further to our recent letter, we enclose a copy of our Personal Budget sheet which gives details of our present financial circumstances.

 

As you can see our outgoings are more than our income and we are experiencing extreme financial hardship. We would be very grateful if you would consider writing off the outstanding debt owing. We have always taken very seriously our financial responsibilities but unfortunately our circumstances are so bad that we cannot realistically maintain payments of any kind.

 

Please take the following special information into account when making your decision.

Paragraph outlining the special circumstances you have that you want the creditor to take into account.

 

As you can see our situation is very unlikely to improve in the future, and our continued high debt level may have a serious effect on our physical and mental wellbeing. We would therefore be grateful if you would seriously consider our request for the debt to be written off.

 

We would appreciate any help you can give us.

 

Yours faithfully

Mr A N Other

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Thanks for link 42man.

 

Still can't get my head around the idea of an application form doubling up as an enforceable agreement at the same time though- I mean you are signing a document to apply for something speculatively, then that signature is upheld as an enforceable agreement to the credit arrangement at a later date as is of course, the bank's countersignature as well?

 

I would have thought you are either applying for a credit ageement with a signature, or agreeing to a credit agreement , once accepted by the bank, with another signature. Isn't that the thrust of the protectionary measures in the CCA Act 74?

 

I mean hypothetically you could for example have been turned down at the time of applying. If that had been the case, could you have counter argued at the time that you had signed an agreement as well as the application for it, so were entitled to the credit regardless?

 

All seems a bit dodgy to me although maybe it's covered in the small print and I'm being thick.

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clemma:Yes, they should produce the original in court. Remember though, the Judge's decision is final, and if the Judge is satisfied with a microfiche copy........(sounds a tad unfair, I know).

 

 

SD: Is it worth writting to the creditor and pointing out that should it go to litigation I would request to see the original through the approprite CPR proceedure etc? as it stands there is after all technically no proof it is the same document- don't have a problem if it is, just want to avoid court action and flag up as many reasons to the creditor as poss to not do that.

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clemma:Yes, they should produce the original in court. Remember though, the Judge's decision is final, and if the Judge is satisfied with a microfiche copy........(sounds a tad unfair, I know).

 

 

SD: Is it worth writting to the creditor and pointing out that should it go to litigation I would request to see the original through the approprite CPR proceedure etc? as it stands there is after all technically no proof it is the same document- don't have a problem if it is, just want to avoid court action and flag up as many reasons to the creditor as poss to not do that.

 

....and help them prepare their defense?? No, you keep what you know to yourself - you only need tell them IF it ever went to court as it would be forming part of your defense ;)

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clemma:and help them prepare their defense?? No, you keep what you know to yourself - you only need tell them IF it ever went to court as it would be forming part of your defense ;)

 

Thanks Clemma good advice think I'll keep my powder dry and fire off the write-off letter and IE showing them [again] how skint I am lol

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just a quick update- pleaded poverty to Sechari and been rewarded with a referal to another DCA wot joy lol so into the merry-go-round we skip but at least looks like litigation is an increasingly distant prospect.

 

Anyway looking into it further the app form may not be as kosher an executed agreement as I first thought [ah the wonders of s.59] and the t and c's can't be the original flip side of the form; also I'm now well tooled up with relevant CPR provisions so bbbrrrriiinnnggg it on! lol

[not that they will cos I think they've finally sussed I'm a penniless dosser :D]

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