Please Help with MBNA CCA

[Bonnie37]

Hi everyone, I have been reading the site for several weeks now, and I just want to say thankyou to all those folks who give their time and experience to help others. Being disabled myself and on standard income support I would not be able to afford the quality advice and information that you guys give.

 

I was kind of hoping that I could just read the forum and conduct my credit card requests without the need to bother you guys but my legal knowledge is very limited and I have run into a brick wall.

 

About a month ago I made two S.A.R requests, one from MBNA Chester and another from Alliance & Leicester (same company) as I was trying to help my pregnant daughter (due in on 21 Dec) to reduce the stress she is under. One request (A&L) came back within the 12+2 allotted days while the other (MBNA) went three days over the working days deadline and effectively put that claim into default. The two credit agreements sent were identical and I believe they may be Unenforceable according to what I have read on this website. My reasons for thinking the two credit agreements are Unenforceable are as follows;

 

 

Agreement 1

 

 

1. The agreement is printed with an extremely small font which when photocopied by them has made it Unreadable, that is according to the dozen or so people with 20/20 vision that I have asked. After some investigating to find what is considered to be ‘normal vision’ and using the standard Snelling vision test data, I concluded that a font 12 should be able to be read at 20 feet away by normal vision, with or without glasses. I guess the font size of the T&Cs is around 6 or lower, with my reckoning I assume someone with ‘normal vision’ should be able to read the credit agreement (font size 6?) at around ten feet away. No-one I asked could even read it properly from close up; most of it can be made out but it is not, in my opinion a legible copy as there are many words which cannot be read.

2. Their signature extends out of the box and into the text of the terms and conditions which I think is a breach of the credit agreement or T&C requirements?

3. The terms and conditions on the agreement only go up to 3b and I am sure it is missing some of the later revised additions. I was alerted to this because both credit card companies included a later (for your convenience…) copy of the current terms and conditions. As my daughter had not signed to these later terms and conditions, I could only conclude that both credit card companies are trying to hoodwink her into believing that the later terms and conditions apply to her. The later terms and conditions go well past clause 3b, in fact they go all the way up to clause 16. If they had not sent her the new terms and conditions I would never have suspected that there should be more than 3b on the original agreement. They kind of shot themselves in the foot here.

 

I would be really grateful if someone with a good working knowledge of these agreements could look this agreement over and let me know how I stand. Do I have valid reasons for claiming this credit card agreement is Unenforceable? Are there any other reasons that I have missed that make this agreement Unenforceable?

 

 

Many thanks.

 

 

 

Agreement 2

Apart from the terms and conditions I cannot see anything wrong with this agreement, though I am not sure of all that needs to be present and in the correct place. This one has both signatures, it has an APR but I am not sure what else needs to be present but isn’t.

Again, I would be very grateful if one of you kind and knowledgeable folks would give this the once over and advise me as to the enforceability of this credit card agreement.

There are several letters that go with these agreements, and several threats of a doorstep visit by Aegis debt recovery agent but I did not want to take up too much of your time with letters which would be irrelevant if the agreement is Unenforceable.

 

Regarding this agreement, my daughter had a phone call from MBNA yesterday evening offering to wipe out the £4,000 debt if she pays them £1,000 in the very near future; is this an offer based upon the Unenforceability of the credit agreement?

 

My daughter is not really one for getting into debt but it all went wrong when her husband (now being treated for depression) was made redundant by the firm he worked for, after over 20 years. As the firm went into receivership he did not even receive his last month’s salary let alone any redundancy payment. He just turned up for work one morning and found the gates locked. After visiting C.A.B they told him he has to put in a claim against the receivers but not to hold his breath as it could take years. Unfortunately, he has not been able to find any work since his redundancy around a year ago and currently lives on £84.00 per week with a partner, a 15 month old girl and one on the way in around a week’s time.

 

Again, I would be really grateful for any help or advice on these two agreements as this will help ease the pressure they are both under.

 

 

With thanks

 

 

Bonnie37

 

 

(I used 300dpi scan to enable anyone to enlarge the documents)

Edited December 17, 2008 by Bonnie37
to remove details

[woody1066]

This is interesting as I have recieved something similar to this. My original thoughts were that it looked as if it had been cut and pasted, but now i see yours I am not so sure.

 

I dont wish to hijack but could somebody also have a look at mine to see if it is enforceble or not

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/172174-mbna-cca-enforceable.html

[Bonnie37]

Anyone?

[lexis200]

Hi Bonnie

 

I can't offer too much help, but certainly the first document you say is illegible - this is a big no-no. It must be easily legible for it to be enforceable.

 

They have sent you the current terms because they are required to. They should also send you the historic terms from the time the account was opened, but they probably won't however much you ask (been there, done that). The thing is, while they don't send them they technically haven't complied, but it's not anything that would hold up in court, so not really worth wasting time over (again, only going from experience with MBNA)

 

With regards to this

Regarding this agreement, my daughter had a phone call from MBNA yesterday evening offering to wipe out the £4,000 debt if she pays them £1,000 in the very near future; is this an offer based upon the Unenforceability of the credit agreement?

 

It may be, or they may just want to get rid of it. If you have a look round the threads you will start to see a pattern of thundering big warning lights over these offers. They are often worded to make you think the debt is being written off for a smaller sum, when in reality all they say is 'we will no longer pursue this debt' or something similar. So, you pay the smaller amount, then a couple of months down the line find yourself being chased by a DCA for the rest of the balance!

 

I have to go out now, but in the unlikely event that you haven't had anyone with a bit more knowledge on in the meantime, I'll try and help some more this evening.

 

Lexis:)

[Bonnie37]

Hi Lexis,

 

Very sorry for the delay in replying to your post, my father has rapidly progressing alzheimer's and has had a very bad day. I have spent all day at his house in contact with several health care workers and only just got home.

 

Anyway, thankyou very much for your input, this is a very worrying time and I seem to keep running into brick walls in every area of my life at the moment.

 

Your opinion is much appreciated as it helps me to try to work through this and ease the burden on my daughter and her partner. I will keep looking around the internet and gather as much info as I can.

 

Many thanks

 

Bonnie

[Bonnie37]

Bump

[pegs2008]

Hi Bonnie37, how is this one going? I got the same format of document through today from Arrow Global regarding my Virgin/MBNA card.

 

Mine is illegible too, did you reply to them about this?

Edited February 16, 2009 by pegs2008
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