Hi all

Please help Im new to all this.

After reading a lot of your threads I decided to request a cca and sars from Cap1.

I posted these recorded delivery on 25/02/09 with the correct postal orders.

Today I received a letter from Ellie Renshaw with copies of current t/cs,

she also advised me in the letter that a default notice was put on the account on 14/02/09.

Could someone please advise me what I should do next.

Many Thanks

Ellie Renshaw is about as real as Roald Macdonald!

Did 'she' send you anything resembling an agreement with the T&Cs?

Also, when did you open this account?

No the only thing I got was a letter from her and a copy of t/cs along with a booklet, the same information that Tinkerbell has showed on her thread. Not sure of exact date the acconunt was openned but it would have been prior to 2001.

Hi Nancy

The T&Cs they have sent does not fulfil the provisions of the CCA1974 as being an enforceable agreement. As you have given them the 12+2 days under s77/78 to fulfil their obligations & they have not, you can put the account in dispute & not make any more payments. However in doing so, be aware that they will prob. put a default on your credit file (if they haven't already done so) & may poss. take you to court. At the moment you have the perfect defence (i.e. no agreement, debt can't be enforced) but it is poss. that they may find a CCA before a hearing & you may then be liable for interest calculated from the date of non-payment.

Here is an idea for a letter to send to them:

Dear Sirs,

Account Number: XXX

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I note that you have replied to the above by merely sending companies current Terms and conditions. I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

And more importantly

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a true copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with this account is in dispute.

I draw your attention to the legal requirement that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

• You must not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  
• You must not add any further interest or charges to this account.
  
• You must not pass this account to any third party.
  
• You must not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies.
  
• You must not issue a default notice on this account
  

I hereby give you notice that if you proceed with any of the above actions, I will file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service.

BTW, you may want to ask a mod to move this thread to the Cap1 forum where you will get advice from other people who have experience of Ms. Renshaw - just click the red triangle at the bottom of the post & ask nicely

Thankyou very much Foolishgirl all advice is very much appreciated.

Thread moved

Ellie Renshaw is about as real as Roald Macdonald!

She's real

She's real

She is?!!!

OMG, she must be such a busy lady - with writer's cramp!

After about 10 phonecalls from Cap1 today I decided to answer last one around 6.15pm. Here's how it went:

Me HAWWO

Cap1 may I speak to Mrs .................. please

Me Chickety Chicken the Chinese Chicken

Cap1 Pardon

Me Chickety chicken the Chinese Chicken

Cap1 It is really important I speak to Mrs.................

Me Chickety chicken the chinese chicken

Cap1 It's funny you were able to speak perfect english before

Me Hawwo

Cap1 I will be ringing again Then she Hung up.

Thanks to all the threads on CAG I'm not afraid of these people anymore.

Will be sending off the above letter recorded delivery on Wed cause 2moro is a bank holiday here.

 

cause 2moro is a bank holiday here.

Are we talking about St. Patrick?

Enjoy your shamrocks & leprauchans!

Yes it is I'll have a Guiness for you. Slainte (cheers)

Right received letter from Ellie today appologising due to admin fault.

States a fully enforceable agreement is enclosed. Only thing enclosed is a leaflet on how to complain?????????????????

Also received my request for Sar print offs from computer print so small you would need microscope to read. Noticed there is £700+ charges on the account, no agreement enclosed with this either.

What should my next move be? Any help very much appreciated.

Hi, Nancy.

Whats the balance on the account ?

Regards.

Scott.

Hi Scott

It's £3800.

OK thanks, better going down the CCA route then, did you send foolishgirls letter in post #4.

Yes I did Scott that,s what Ellie was replying to in her letter received today.

Nancy

Well I guess that's what comes of being such a busy lady, you just plain forget what you are supposed to stuff in the envelope - poor Ellie Renshaw.

I suggest you write back referrring to her letter & the statement that 'a fully enforceable agreement is enclosed', enclosing a copy of what she sent you & ask her to explain why she considers this agreement 'fully enforceable' & how it is fully compliant with S78 of the CCA1974.

At least then, if it came to court & they produced the rabbit, you would have been seen to be reasonable in the eyes of a DJ.

Have now received a letter from Capquest. Do I now send Bemused letter or just wait and see what happens?

Yes. the bemused letter is just fine. They probably won't take any notice but it will look good in a court bundle if it gets to that stage

Many Thanks Foolishgirl.

Sent bemused letter r/d yesterday.

Just received phone call from Capquest refused to go security questions,

she got a bit stroppy with me saying I haven't replied to their 3 letters.

I have only received 1 letter dated 20/4 from them hence the bemused letter.

I asked her when the other letters were sent she said 17/4 ( haven't received it yet)

and wait for it the 3rd letter sent to me today,

these people really are incredible.

wait for it the 3rd letter sent to me today, these people really are incredible.

Gosh are they couriering letters out and about now then :D:D

Update Received another letter from Cap1 on Sat same as before this is your agreement and only a complaints leaflet enclosed. Have now started to receive phonecalls from Capquest again. Any ideas what I should do now:confused:

Update Received another letter from Cap1 on Sat same as before this is your agreement and only a complaints leaflet enclosed. Have now started to receive phonecalls from Capquest again. Any ideas what I should do now:confused:

You can either ignore it or advise them by return letter that they still havent responded properly to your s78 request.

They'll ignore this and carry on regardless mind as they will not accept that what they send does not conform.

S.

Update Received another letter from Cap1 on Sat same as before this is your agreement and only a complaints leaflet enclosed. Have now started to receive phonecalls from Capquest again. Any ideas what I should do now:confused:

Ignore & file the letters in a BIG box - you're going to need it!

Don't answer the calls (or if you do, refuse to go through the security details) & be conscientous in keeping a log of them all so you can possibly bring a harassment claim in the future. I understand the CAG call recorder is excellent & easy to use.