Bill Of Sales and repossession of goods - NOTE: much of this is now out of date - dx 2016

[cctv engineer]

OFT COMMENTARY ON BILLS OF SALE*

In researching the area of car finance two authorities gave us details of cars being sold under a Bill

of Sale. We have looked at the Bills of Sale Acts (BSA) and their interaction with consumer credit

legislation and the Office's view is set out below. We have also researched how to check if a Bill of

Sale has been registered.

Royal Courts of Justice

The Bill of Sale must be witnessed and registered at the Royal Courts of Justice, in the time and

manner set out in the BSA, otherwise it will be void and cannot be treated as a licence to take

possession. You can check if this has been carried out by making a written request to the Court

and paying £5 or visiting there in person and searching the register for free. To search you need to

know the name of the borrower, their address and the year of registration.The entries in the

register are made alphabetically in the name of the borrower.

The address is:

Room E17, East Block Ground Floor, Royal Courts of Justice, Strand, London WC2A 2LL**

Bills of Sale Acts

As we understand the position –

a. Buying a car under a bill of sale will be a regulated consumer credit agreement

b. The goods will not become ‘protected’ in the same way as for hire-purchase agreements

(for which section 90 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 provides that if the consumer has

paid one-third or more of the total price of the goods, the creditor cannot recover

possession except by judicial proceedings or consent).

c. However, the creditor will not be able to enforce the security unless he has first served a

default notice under section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and this has expired (after

not less than 14 days) without remedy or the debtor applying to the court for relief.

d. If the creditor repossesses without a valid default notice, the consumer may apply for an

injunction or a time order, or seek damages for breach of contract.

On this basis, whilst the consumer will have less protection under a bill of sale than under a hirepurchase

agreement, he will not be completely unprotected, and the creditor will be at risk of

licensing action if he acts unfairly.

In addition –

e. The bill of sale is given as security, and where this is provided in relation to a regulated

consumer credit agreement it must comply with section 105 Consumer Credit Act 1974.

f. The credit agreement must embody any security, by virtue of regulation 2(8) of the

Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983. A document embodies a provision if the

provision is set out in it or in another document referred to in it (a bill of sale will usually be

incorporated by reference).

g. The debtor must be provided with a copy of the bill of sale, pursuant to sections 62 and 63

Consumer Credit Act 1974, since this is a document referred to in the credit agreement.

h. If the bill of sale does not comply with section 105 of the Act it will be unenforceable by

virtue of section 106. Furthermore, if the credit agreement does not comply with the

Consumer Credit Act 1974 so that it is unenforceable, this will preclude the exercise of any

remedies under the bill of sale (except pursuant to a court order where relevant).

i. The bill of sale must also comply with the statutory provisions in the Bills of Sale Acts. In

particular, it must be in the form given in the schedule to the Bills of Sale Act (1878)

Amendment Act 1882, otherwise it will be void and cannot be treated as a licence to take

possession.

j. The bill of sale must also be witnessed and registered (at the relevant department of the

Supreme Court) in the time and manner set out in the Bills of Sale Acts, otherwise it will be

void in respect of the chattels comprised in it.

1

k. In practice, the majority of such bills of sale may well be unenforceable because the

provisions of the Bills of Sale Acts are unlikely to have been followed, and even if they

have, the relevant requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 must also be satisfied.

l. The bill of sale and related credit agreement may also be susceptible to action under the

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 or under the extortionate credit

bargain provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

m.Whether title can pass to a third party where there is a valid bill of sale will depend upon

whether the bill transfers legal or equitable title to the grantee, and each case would need

to be looked at on its facts.

The Bills of Sale Acts are unduly complex and outdated, and should be reviewed – as

recommended by the Crowther Committee in 1971. We suspect however that BERR will be

unwilling to include this in the current Consumer Credit Act 1974 Review unless there is clear

evidence of consumer detriment. You may wish to bring your concerns to the BERR’s attention by

writing to –

Consumer Affairs Directorate, Department of Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform, 1

Victoria Street, London SW1H 0ET

[Nicky Bodmin]

have a red throught this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/log-book-loans-bills/219794-can-there-more-than.html

[postggj]

Thanks People

[postggj]

Still Does Not Answer My Question

 

I Need A Link Ref Third Party /repo/bos And Needing A Court Order To Repo

 

I Need Facts To Quote In Black And White

[cctv engineer]

have a red throught this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/log-book-loans-bills/219794-can-there-more-than.html

 

 

Nicky. is that your bill of sale. ????

[Nicky Bodmin]

No because I didnt have a loan with them someone stole my logbook put it in their name then put a loan on car.

[cctv engineer]

No because I didnt have a loan with them someone stole my logbook put it in their name then put a loan on car.

 

 

so you have your car and you do not have a fight with lbl ???

[postggj]

Lets Not Get Off Topic People

[Nicky Bodmin]

Its covered in the BOS Act she would have an equitable ownership on the car. Lets face it no matter what they are governed by they just simply ignore it all. They will only listen eventusally to a court order asking to return the car.

I would suggest to go straight to the courts ask advice and then make an application to the judge to put an order on the car to stop them selling it.

An injunction, the court staff are =very helpful and will point you in the right dirrection.

It will allow you time to get legal help, you could even get the car returned if you have enough proof of ownership.

Just walk in to the courts and ask for help.

[cctv engineer]

Lets Not Get Off Topic People

Hi i am not off topic. the bill of sale in the post i have just proved to be void in court. and that type can not be used.

[postggj]

I Agree But I Need To See The Relevent Section In Bos Act Before I Advise A Return Of Goods Order

 

I Do Not Like Ending Up With Egg On My Face

 

I Just Need A Link Or A Cut And Paste Of The Legislation On Bos And Third Party Repo

[Nicky Bodmin]

so you have your car and you do not have a fight with lbl ???

Yes I have my own fight as we speak, action is happeniong now. I cant say untill I have heard back. If sucessful will be a major break through for all.

Will post when I here

[postggj]

Hi i am not off topic. the bill of sale in the post i have just proved to be void in court. and that type can not be used.

 

 

I TOTALLY AGREE BUT ITS MY QUESTION ABOVE THAT IS RELEVANT IN THIS CASE

[Nicky Bodmin]

Come on guys stop arguing every bit of info regarding LBL can be helpful.

[cctv engineer]

Yes I have my own fight as we speak, action is happeniong now. I cant say untill I have heard back. If sucessful will be a major break through for all.

Will post when I here

 

 

fair enough i will leave the topic alone. but i will leave with this. only 8 people have ever won with a bill of sale. me being one of them. that bill of sale listed in void in every way as a bill of sale. i have oft come to my house after court for statement. a total of 200 miles.

 

but at the end of the day you are fighting a bill of sale and NOT a credit aggrement.

i have posted on this forum for people to pm me so as i can let them know what makes it void. do you know how many people pm me .......NONE

[postggj]

I Agree

 

Ive Spent The Last Two Hours Looking At The Legislation Ref Bos

 

Remember

 

Bos Are Secured On The Car, Not On The Owner, Whoever And When Ever That May Be

 

Thats Why I Need To Quote The Correct Legislation In My Post 197

 

Thats All Ime Asking

[postggj]

fair enough i will leave the topic alone. but i will leave with this. only 8 people have ever won with a bill of sale. me being one of them. that bill of sale listed in void in every way as a bill of sale. i have oft come to my house after court for statement. a total of 200 miles.

 

but at the end of the day you are fighting a bill of sale and NOT a credit aggrement.

i have posted on this forum for people to pm me so as i can let them know what makes it void. do you know how many people pm me .......NONE

 

 

CCTV ENGINEER

 

AS YOU PROB GUESSED CAR FINANCE IS MY AREA

 

WHAT YOU HAVE SAID TO ME TODAY IS DYNAMITE REF COURT ORDER IF I CAN ONLY GET IT CONFIRMED

 

PLEASE DO PM ME ON WHAT MAKES A BOS VOID INCASE IVE MISSED ANYTHING

 

ITS A LEARNING GAME FOR EVERY ONE

 

EVEN ME:D

[Nicky Bodmin]

My case is diff the BOS is the security for the credit agreement that is the security on the car. I didnt have a lone with the company so that is a breech of sec 5 the BOS act.

You cant just put a CA abnd a BOS on anyone elses car but your own.

If the car doesnt belong to the borrower then the BOS is not actionable is it. But tyhe CA is still inforce. Its the only sec of the Act that voids the BOS and leaves the CA in tact. Read sec 5

[Nicky Bodmin]

Yes thats correct it is secured on the car.

A BOS is the document used in conjunction with a CA and that then makes it a securedn loan. If there is no BOS there is no secured loan.

If the CA is not that of the owner of the car then the BOS is not actionable then it just becomes a normal unsecured loan.

Can you see what Im saying.

Most of the points that void a BOS will also challenge the CA.

Sec 5 just will remove the BOS.

Like wise if the CA is not enforcable the BOS becomes Void to.

[postggj]

If The Bos Is Crap

 

The Credit Agreement Then Becomes An

 

unsecured Agreement With All The Rights Of The Cca 1974

[postggj]

Yes thats correct it is secured on the car.

A BOS is the document used in conjunction with a CA and that then makes it a securedn loan. If there is no BOS there is no secured loan.

If the CA is not that of the owner of the car then the BOS is not actionable then it just becomes a normal unsecured loan.

Can you see what Im saying.

Most of the points that void a BOS will also challenge the CA.

Sec 5 just will remove the BOS.

Like wise if the CA is not enforcable the BOS becomes Void to.

 

 

BANG ON AS THE TWO ARE LINKED

 

ONE TAINTS THE OTHER

[cctv engineer]

My case is diff the BOS is the security for the credit agreement that is the security on the car. I didnt have a lone with the company so that is a breech of sec 5 the BOS act.

You cant just put a CA abnd a BOS on anyone elses car but your own.

If the car doesnt belong to the borrower then the BOS is not actionable is it. But tyhe CA is still inforce. Its the only sec of the Act that voids the BOS and leaves the CA in tact. Read sec 5

 

 

HI nicky. i was in the same posion as you. you are NOT covered by a credit agreement. a credit agreement does not overtake a bill of sale.

 

now even that your details were stolen for your car. money still changed hands under a bill of sale. this even if it is hard to understand gives the lender right to your car. and you have to go after the guy who used your details. Nicky i am going to pm you my number so as i can tell you the problem with your bos. if i post it lbl will find out and change it (closing the door for others)

http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/corporate/docs/migrated-consultations/a%20better%20deal%20for%20consumers%20consultation%20on%20proposals%20to%20ban%20the%20use%20of%20bills%20of%20sale%20for%20consumer%20lending.pdf

[Nicky Bodmin]

yes thats correct.

So because the person who has just had car taken not knowing there was a loan on it has to challenge the BOS then the CA still falls back onto the person who's name its in.

LBL will do what ever they want they are governed by rules and regulations just like all financial institutes but they ignore all.

For every 100 they take only a few will fight it, and thats why they do it.

British people dont fight they believe what they are told and thats the prob

Fo

[cctv engineer]

If The Bos Is Crap

 

The Credit Agreement Then Becomes An

 

unsecured Agreement With All The Rights Of The Cca 1974

 

 

if a bill of sale is found to be void or not redgistered then everything is void.

[postggj]

Negative On That

 

I Have That Confirmed From The Oft

 

At The End Of The Day A Credit Agreement Was Signed Be It Secured By A Bos Or Not But If The Credit Agreement Is Crap, So Is The Bos