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    • Hi, the vehicle went to Audi Chingford on Thursday 13th May. I did state beforehand that I only wanted a diagnostic. The technician out of courtesy opened the drain letting huge deposits of water escape the seals. Video evidence was provided via AUDI cam. The link for the audi cam has been forwarded to BMW and Motonovo. I spoke to branch manager explained the situation and he stated he would sent me an email outlining the issue. Audi state this is not really an issue and more of a design flaw. However, the seals still have water ingress. I purchased the vehicle with £0 deposit on a 60 months HP plan for £520.00. The vehicle total was £21000. I did not go for any extended warranty. I live almost 70 miles away from the aftersales centre in Peterborough. I have previously uploaded the document I forwarded to BMW however it was in word format. I have had to buy a new tyre almost three days after purchasing vehicle. BMW still have not compensated me for the v62 cost as they said they would. 
    • I would suggest that you stop trying to rely on legal theory – as you understand it. Firstly, because we are dealing with practical/pragmatic situations and at a low value level where these arguments tend not to work. Secondly, because you clearly have misunderstood the assessment of quantum where there are breaches of obligations. The formula that you have cited above is the method of loss calculation in torts. In contract it is entirely different. The law of obligations generally attempts to remedy the breach. This means that in tort, damages seek to put you into the position you would have been in had the breach not occurred. In other words it returns you to your starting position – point zero. Contract damages attend put you into the position that you would have been had the breach not occurred but this is not your starting position, contract damages assume that the agreement in dispute had actually been carried out. This puts you into your final position. You sold an item for £XXX. Your expectation was that you your item would be correctly delivered and that you would be the beneficiary of £XXX. Your expectation loss is the amount that you sold the item for and that is all you are entitled to recover. If you want, you can try to sue for the larger sum – and we will help you. But if they ask for evidence of the value of the item as it was sold then I can almost guarantee that either you will be obliged to settle for the lesser sum – or else a judge will give you judgement but for the lesser sum. This will put you to the position that you would have been had there been no breach of contract. I understand from you now that when you dispatch the item you declared the retail cost to you and not your expected benefit of £XXX. To claim for the retail value in the circumstances would offend the rules relating to betterment. If you want to do it then we will help you – but don't be surprised if you take a tumble.  
    • I was caught speeding 3 times in the same week, on the same road. All times were 8-12mph higher than the limit. I was offered the course for the first offense and I now need to accept the other 2 offenses. I just want to be ready for what might come. Will I get the £100 fine and 3 points for each of them or do I face something more severe?  These are my only offenses in 8 years of driving.
    • I'll get my letter drafted this evening. Its an item I sold, which I'm also concerned about, as whilst I don't have my original purchase receipt (the best I have is my credit card statement showing a purchase from Car Audio Centre), I do unfortunately have the eBay listing where I sold it for much less. But as I said before this is now a question of compensation: true compensation would seek to put me back into the position I was in before the loss ie: that title would remain with me until my buyer has accepted this, and so compensation should be that which would be needed to replace the lost item. But in the world of instant electronic payment, it could be argued that as I had already been paid, the title to the goods had already transferred, and I was required to refund the buyer after the loss. And so, despite my declared value being the retail price - that which is needed to return me to my pre-sales position, the compensatory value should be the value I sold it for, which being a second-hand item from a private seller is lower. I still believe that I should be claiming for the item's full value, rather than how much I sold it for, as this is the same for insurance: we don't insure the value we paid, but rather the value of the item to put us back into the position we would be in if we ever needed to claim. Its for the loss adjuster to argue the toss
    • amusing that 'bad economic judgement on behalf of prior party ISN'T a major reason to wingers to move to deform yet immigration is, where record levels of such has been driven by the right wings terrible brexit and the later incompetent dog whistle 'proposals largely driven to whistle to the right wingnuts Just seems to confirm the are clueless numpties 'wetting their own shoes   Has farage bought a property in Clacton yet?   yet concern for the NHS is listed as a major issue even by those saying they are moving to deform  
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Office Of Fair Trading Test Case


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Is there any update on this case?

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Received a reply today from my MP in response to a letter I wrote to him.

It was regards the matter of the inappropriate and undemocratic way that the OFT test case was being conducted, and in particular the restrictions upon access for the Press and Public, which were totally disproportionate to the importance of the issues and the massive public concern and interest in the case:

 

I've posted his response here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1370814.html

  • Haha 1

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Received a reply today from my MP in response to a letter I wrote to him.

It was regards the matter of the inappropriate and undemocratic way that the OFT test case was being conducted, and in particular the restrictions upon access for the Press and Public, which were totally disproportionate to the importance of the issues and the massive public concern and interest in the case:

 

I've posted his response here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1370814.html

 

PM,

 

Excellent,

 

Tide

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Unless somebody has more knowledge than myself, or there actually is a website or whatever where a transcript or even resume of the previous day or even days' proceedings of the case can be found, then I find it shamefully that there is no such facility for the general public to access a record of the prodeedings and be kept up to date on what is surely a popular "trial".

“It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business.”

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OFT Test case

 

".....The OFT has refused to publish copies of the banks' defences on its website or to make them available in any other way for consumers. The OFT cites "confidentiality" reasons. However, Bob the Bankbuster is pleased to be able to make them available. To view them, click on the links below – the documents (pdfs) will download to your computer."

 

Abbey defence

Barclays defence

Clydesdale defence

Halifax (HBOS) defence

Royal Bank of Scotland (including NatWest) defence

Lloyds TSB defence

HSBC defence

  • Haha 1

 

 

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this is one example where the OFT did publish the amended POC's with bits crossed through from the original. Abbey below as example because they are first alphabetically on the list of defendents.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/personal-current-accounts/Abbey-amended-defence.pdf

I think all of them are there on the OFT website. I think that at the time he posted that the OFT did not post any POC's at all on their site.

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Yes.. Can anyone shed any light what happens now if the case has finished?

 

I have 2 claims that I didn't bother taking to MCOL because of this 'test case'. I got the usual fob off letters from Nationwide, that was back in July 2007.

 

Do we have to send another letter?

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Don't send your letter yet fuzzgun19, it may take another year before we can do anything at all with our claims. Even if the Judge rules in the OFT's favour (this should take several weeks) there is bound to be an appeal, and then it may even go to the House of Lords, so it could be another year before any of us can continue with our claims (or not as the case may be).

 

Never mind, think of a years worth of 8% interest added on.

 

Patience is a virtue,

Possess it of you can,

Seldom in a woman,

Never in a man. :D

 

maggiebroom :)

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So are we just waiting for the decision to be made by the Judge?

 

Yes but don't expect a judgement anytime soon. The judge has to make 7 separate declarations and has indicated that there will be another 'discrete' hearing during the consideration of his judgement. I wouldn't be surprised if it took six months or even longer, but let's hope not.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My friend lives in the US and he has hired an attorney to look at the same issues we are dealing with here. In the case of credit card charges there was a Supreme Court Case and the judge ruled in favour of CitiBank. I hope the judge in our case sees more sense!

 

 

In Smiley v. Citibank (South Dakota), N.A., the Supreme Court ruled that late-payment fees on credit cards were “interest” and therefore that the National Bank Act permits national banks to charge fees that are lawful in the state where the bank has its principal place of business rather than being limited by consumer protection laws of the state of the consumer to whom the fee is charged.” 517 U.S. 735, 740 (1996).

 

“‘The term ‘interest’…includes any payment compensating a creditor or prospective creditor for an extension of credit, making available of a line of credit, or any default or breach by a borrower of a condition upon which credit was extended. It includes, among other things, the following fees connected with credit extension or availability: numerical periodic rates, late fees, not sufficient funds (NSF) fees, over limit fees, annual fees, cash advance fees, and membership fees."

 

 

I know this thread is to do with the test case here in the UK but I thought this might be interesting.
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Penalty Charges in USA

 

Clearly the US Supreme Court accepted the penalty charge as arbitrary "interest" regardless of the principle of proportionality embodied in the English precedent ruling on Dunlop v Garage 1910. Regardless of £20 penalty for going 20 pence overlimit.

 

Penalty Charges in Venice

 

The US ruling calls to mind another celebrated trial, that in the court of Venice in 1597, with His Grace the Duke of Venice presiding. Before him plaintiff Shylock the money-lender acting for himself, and counsel Portia acting for defendant Antonio.

 

The money-lender's penalty charge? A pound of flesh to be cut out of Antonio's body, as agreed in the contract, previously signed and properly witnessed.

 

 

Merchant-lowres.jpg

 

PORTIA

Why, this bond is forfeit;

And lawfully by this the Jew may claim

A pound of flesh, to be by him cut off

Nearest the merchant's heart. Be merciful:

Take thrice thy money; bid me tear the bond.

 

SHYLOCK

When it is paid according to the tenor.

It doth appear you are a worthy judge;

You know the law, your exposition

Hath been most sound: I charge you by the law,

Whereof you are a well-deserving pillar,

Proceed to judgment: by my soul I swear

There is no power in the tongue of man

To alter me: I stay here on my bond.

 

 

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Why do i need to wait until the court case is over to make my claim? Surely no laws have yet changed making the charges still illegal under the UTCCA. This site repeatedly reminds me its legally my money.

 

HSBC were charging me for going over my overdraft limit when it was their charges that were putting me over my limit, i see this as the financial equivalent of kicking someone when they're down.

 

Can anyone explain why they're entitled to wait until after court to process my claim?

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Why do i need to wait until the court case is over to make my claim?

 

You don't - if you haven't started you should do so immediately - but be warned that it will in all likelihood be stayed - but you will still be in a better position come the result of the test case

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You don't - if you haven't started you should do so immediately - but be warned that it will in all likelihood be stayed - but you will still be in a better position come the result of the test case

I rang up to make my claim about 20 mins before making that post. He was a nice guy but he said that it will not be processed until after court.

I want to know why that they're exempt from current consumer legislation.

Why should I wait? The law states that these charges are illegal.

 

My step father has been through this with a large bank, went to court and won. He believes i should ring them up tomorrow and tell them i want every penny refunded immediately and that they should comply within 24 hours...

 

As he so rightly said it is infact **** and in any other walk of life they would be arrested and prosecuted.

 

Anyone share this opinion? I want to be sure of what i'm doing as the bank has put me under severe financial strain and i need the money back asap.

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As he so rightly said it is infact **** and in any other walk of life they would be arrested and prosecuted.

 

Absolutely, but they aren't and they won't be - and they know this.

 

Hence the reason they keep doing what they keep doing.

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

*If what I have told you in this post has helped, please press the star at the bottom left and tell me!!*

 

My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

Default removals:

un1boy v Equifax - Default removal

un1boy vs Experian - Default removal

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I rang up to make my claim about 20 mins before making that post. He was a nice guy but he said that it will not be processed until after court.

 

Even more reason to get your claim started now - so that you will be in the 'system' when the decision is made

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So is it business as usual for basic account customer's?

 

The release says the OFT are looking into Current account charges

"The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education." Albert Einstein

 

"No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent" - E. Roosevelt

 

 

Don't lie, thieve, cheat or steal. The Government do not like the competition.

 

 

All advice is offered without prejudice.

We are being sued for Libel. Please help us by donating

 

Please support the pettition to remove Gordon Brown as he was not elected primeinister. He was elected Party Leader something completely different.

 

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/gordan-brown/

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