Unfair/unlawful Terms?

[Timsta]

However we are talking about you trying to get out of paying a parking fine for which you are liable.....

 

....Working on your logic, did you pay to park?

 

Um, no I'm not liable, the driver is.

 

The parking lot in question is free, the driver just needs to get a ticket.

[Guest Gertie100]

So, your MIL is blind, you won't admit who the driver is, so I assume that the car was stolen?

In that case ring the police.

 

By the way, how do you get the ticket?

[Rob S]

And up to a point I would agree with that.

However we are talking about you trying to get out of paying a parking fine for which you are liable.

You aren't disputing how much you should be paying are you?

You are delibrately trying to get out of paying a fine which you have incurred!

 

But as it is parking on private property the owner can not fine you, they don't have that power. And that is the issue, all these companies springing up and claiming they can fine you. Which of course they can't. It's nothing to do with evading payment but all to do with fighting back against companies who try and impose unfair terms and then harass people and lie to them about what might happen if they don't pay the "fine".

[Timsta]

So, your MIL is blind, you won't admit who the driver is, so I assume that the car was stolen?

In that case ring the police.

 

By the way, how do you get the ticket?

 

1. My MIL is blind, the car is owned by motability, leased to her.

2. I am one of three designated drivers for the vehicle.

3. I never got the ticket, my MIL got a letter from the parking company.

 

Assumption, the mother of all....

[Guest Gertie100]

People trying to get out of paying fines which they are liable - *******

[Timsta]

People trying to get out of paying fines which they are liable - *******

 

Gertie, could you please tell me who was driving, as this is proving to be too much hassle. I'll then just get the driver to pay and be done.

 

P.S. in case you were still unclear, it wasn't me.

[Rob S]

Fines or penalties can not be issued by private companies for alleged infringements of parking. Law of contract applies and it has to be established that a contract was accepted by the driver. Once that is established it's a question of claiming for actual losses incurred. If the signage is inadequate then no contract is formed.

[Guest perky88]

You are incorrect Rob ..

 

If a contract has an explicit term (in this case the amount and when it should be paid) then a loss does NOT have to be demonstrated as the claim is for the contracutal amount.

 

It is trespass law that you should demonstrate a loss, but again, you can claim for nominal damages when no loss has occured (not negligable) .. but the signs (I guess) relate to contract.

 

The question is .. who was driving.. I agree with Gerties point about people just trying to wrangle out of it ... but without seeing the site/photogrpahs it could be down to inadequate signage.

 

In reality if the person is blind and 3 people are insured and authorised to drive the company will not proceed - so I presume this is one up for people who illegally park on someone elses property .. great (if you're minded that way).

 

Stuff the rights of the person who pays rent/rates/insurance/maintenance for the land your mom and her driver decided to park on.

 

You (or whoever was driving) should feel proud of yourself .. just remember, what goes around comes around...

 

funny thing is, if your mom or the driver was to trip on a pothole or similar on the land she was illegally parked on then I am sure she would be making a claim for damages although she shouldnt of been there .. but I suppose thats just the society we live in .............

[Rob S]

If the contract has an explicit term which is a fine or penalty then it enters the realms of unfair contracts.....................which is where this forum can trace its roots in respect of bank charges.

[Guest perky88]

There is no mention of a fine or penalty .. it is the clearly stated contractually agreed CHARGE for parking.

[Guest perky88]

Sorry .. I am guessing it is not relating to a penalty or a fine ... thats why the signage and CHARGE notice attached to the vehicle is the key.

[Timsta]

Well, being that it is free to park there the charge has already paid, and they saved the cost of a 2"x2" piece of paper.

[Timsta]

Of course, the word "penalty" in penalty charge notice tends to imply otherwise.

[Guest perky88]

I agree Timsta, A penalty charge notice is a penalty .. whereas a parking charge notice is a parking charge.

 

They can still refer as a PCN (Parking Charge Notice).

 

Still think its a case of trying every loophole possible to wrange out of something the driver knew was wrong, took the chance, got caught failrly and squarely .. now they are bleating on about how hard done by they are !

[Timsta]

Well, it doesn't really bother me, they're chasing a blind woman for a parking ticket. They'll look really stupid if they ever take it to court.

[Guest perky88]

I agree Timsta .. and I dont think they will.

 

So I go back to my original comment - the driver should feel really proud of themselves for getting one over on a person who pays rent/rates/insurance etc.,, and some inconsiderate person then comes and parks there.

 

Just hope the boot is never on the other foot ... but what goes around comes around

[Rob S]

Still think its a case of trying every loophole possible to wrange out of something the driver knew was wrong, took the chance, got caught failrly and squarely .. now they are bleating on about how hard done by they are !

 

With so many companies trying to cash in it's no surprise that people are getting fed up with the corporate greed and fighting back against these charletans.

[Guest perky88]

At the end of the day .. if people did not park on land they have no right to be on then there would be no way a parking charge could be issued !!

 

We all have a choice as to where we park, do we pay 50p per hour in the NCP or take the chance and park on someone elses land ...

 

The signs state its private, they state how much the charge is and yet people still park there.

 

9/10 you get away with it .. then 1 time you get caught and bleat,moan,winge about how unfair it is etc...etc....etc..... the use sites like this that are supposed to be about genuine unfairness to find the loopholes to get out of it !!

[Zamzara]

At the end of the day .. if people did not park on land they have no right to be on then there would be no way a parking charge could be issued !!

 

We all have a choice as to where we park, do we pay 50p per hour in the NCP or take the chance and park on someone elses land ...

 

The signs state its private, they state how much the charge is and yet people still park there.

 

9/10 you get away with it .. then 1 time you get caught and bleat,moan,winge about how unfair it is etc...etc....etc..... the use sites like this that are supposed to be about genuine unfairness to find the loopholes to get out of it !!

 

Most of the cases I read about on forums are where a legitimate customer of a business, or a resident, is being scammed for trying to park fairly.

 

Also be aware that if you try to make a charge for parking under contract law, you are thereby granting anybody the right to park on your land in return for that fee, and you give up the right to remove them from it. It effectively becomes an expensive public care park. Is that really such a good thing?

 

If you own a couple of parking spaces and don't want people parking there, what is wrong with just having a sign saying private, and removing trespassers using reasonable force?

[Timsta]

I agree Timsta .. and I dont think they will.

 

So I go back to my original comment - the driver should feel really proud of themselves for getting one over on a person who pays rent/rates/insurance etc.,, and some inconsiderate person then comes and parks there.

 

Just hope the boot is never on the other foot ... but what goes around comes around

 

 

I'm sure the driver would fell proud or contrite, depending on who it was. But that's the whole point though, we don't know who it is. Would you happily pay for it? My MIL sure doesn't want to pay for it, and why should she?

[Guest perky88]

because too many people know too little law.

 

Many of our customers state they have tried the polite way, notes under windows and get abuse back.

 

You CANNOT move a vehicle unless there are signs stating removal takes place - the remover MUST be sia registered.

 

 

I agree that people should stand up for their rights, and badly signed carparks etc.. are wrong (see other thread I am in discussion with someone stating this very thing).

 

Why would a business issue a ticket to one of its own customers .. doesnt make sense ... after all they want their car park to be for customers only .. and by customer I mean someone who goes intending to use their shop .. not someone who claims to be a customer by (1) purchasing a bag of crisps in 1984 or (2) only a customer when they came back to find a ticket.

 

 

This specific thread, I strongly susepct the poster knew who was driving, the driver knew they were parked on private land and are now trying to evade a correctly issued charge - something, I suspect goes against the very ethics of this board (ie. standing up for wrongs, not looking for ways to wriggle out of something that you shouldnt have done in the 1st place)

 

 

I can only speak from my company viewpoint, what I would expect and what I expect of my customers ... I am a driver and whenever I speak with a new customer I always say - reverse the situation, if you were ticketed on your carpark and the sign was 50yards away that would not be right or fair .. but if you got a ticket when clear signs are there but you decided to take a chance or didnt pay reasonable attention then it would be fair cop ...

 

No use in trying to set a system up that is non enforceable, as its a waste of time - the company gets a repuation as a rip off agent ... thats my thinking, it might be right, it might be wrong ... dont know .. but still..

 

BUT I AGREE ... RIPPING PEOPLE OFF, HIDING SIGNS IS WRONG AND IF COMPANIES CANNOT SEE COMMON SENSE THEN THEY SHOULD BE BROUGHT TO ACCOUNT ...

[Guest Gertie100]

My final (hopefully) comment is this:

 

Your MIL shouldn't pay it - the person who parked the car there should.

 

Now it wasn't you - and there are only 3 people who can "legally" drive the car. Would hope these are at least acquaintances of yours...unless of course it was stolen - but it wasn't was it! You have already clarified that.

 

So if neither of the other 2 people will admit to it, someone is lying. Awful thought isn't it - you know people who would rather lie and let your blind MIL deal with it...

Hope I never have to rely on that type of person to help me in the future...

[Rob S]

9/10 you get away with it .. then 1 time you get caught and bleat,moan,winge about how unfair it is etc...etc....etc..... the use sites like this that are supposed to be about genuine unfairness to find the loopholes to get out of it !!

 

Lots of sour grapes there Perky, but hardly surprising coming from someone who has set up a private parking company to join all the other snouts in the trough.

[Guest perky88]

No sour grapes at all ...my comment is fact, I deal with the wining letters daily - some are very funny to read, some are just downright annoying - but part of the game.

 

Once personal insults start being thrown its time to give in the towel - snouts in the trough .. OK !

 

Anyway .. this topic has gone way off .. so cant think of anything else to add