***DERAvsHFC Bank***

[dera2005]

What i am looking for ideally is for the remainder to be written off and the default to be removed and if possible some type of compensation. But if this is not possible then atleast for the remainder to be writen off and or the default to be removed. Where do i stand as regard to that ??

[rory32]

You will only get compensation if you have to go to court to get the default removed and even then you may not get any compensation.

 

If you want to propose to the bank that it might be a good idea to write off the debt then have a read of this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/93884-wescot-rbofs-oh-dear.html

 

It should give you some ideas.

[dera2005]

Hello All,

 

I have recieved a final response fom HFC today but late possibly becuase of all the previous postal strikes.

 

anyways they have said that they are not upholding my complaint.

 

They have produced my credit agreement unsigned also they havent provided me with a copy of the default notice. They have produced a copy of the statement of account which appears just to of been typed up in excel.

 

Heres the problem I have found my copy of the agreement going through my box of financial stuff.

 

Mine is signed by the bank (on behalf of) on the 18.11.03 the copy they sent me is signed on behalf of the bank on the 19.11.03.

 

It also states on the agreement that the amount of £79.08 will be deducted from my account each month this appears to include PPI of which i didnt sign for.

 

To top it off on the statement of account (excel sheet) they have provided its got payments of £79.09 not £79.08 as stated on my orginial agreement and the copy they sent me.

 

Have also checked bank statements and it appears they are taking £79.09.

 

Is this legal how can they take more than the agreement states.

 

if anyone can advise me of next steps i would be greateful.

 

I have faxed all the corrispondance for the FOS to look into also.

 

Please be advised that both my originial and their copy are not signed by me

 

dera.

[Penfold92]

Hi Dera,

 

I agree with you and unlike many others on here do not believe that the banks should get away with being inaccurate, naive, arrogant or whatever else you want to call them!

 

Everything they do is legal and fine, but question them at your peril...Read my post today regarding Penfold V Woolwich and you will see I am actually taking them to court. I want my day in court and want to hear them issue the words "he owes it, we can't prove it, but he owes it..."

 

Cannot wait to hear what the judge says!

 

Penfold

[dera2005]

Hey Penfold,

 

Yeah i am gonna go to the CAB on monday and see what they say have tried to call FOS for advice and have been told they are conducting a full investigation. So will try them again on monday too HFC [edit] wont get the better of me

[dera2005]

Really need to know if this is a case of an incorrectly executed agreement and where i stand now.

 

I can upload the banks final response plus the 2 different dated agreements if it would help

 

dera.

[Penfold92]

Really need to know if this is a case of an incorrectly executed agreement and where i stand now.

 

 

Sorry can't help you with that as would not know one if it hit me in the face! But do know they (banks) have taken most of us for a ride and used our lack of legal knowledge against us. I have just had a defence back from Woolwich that is full of BS and legal jargon to put me off (IMHO of course but what do I know)

 

Penfold

[dera2005]

Can anyone shed any light on what to next next

 

*Bump*

[rory32]

Really need to know if this is a case of an incorrectly executed agreement and where i stand now.

 

If the agreement has not been signed by you it has not been executed. An agreement which has not been signed by the debtor is not enforceable as a credit agreement.

[dera2005]

Thanks Rory so what about everything else in relation to the different amounts being taken to the one stated on the agreement and the 2 different dates e.g on mine copy it says 18.11.03 on the one they sent me the so called "copy" says the 19.11.03

 

Do you think i should just let the Financial Ombudsman handle it ?

[rory32]

I would send something along the lines of the following to HFC:

 

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.

 

I am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by ourselves on the (date).

 

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act and is therefore unenforceable under section 127(3) of the same act.

 

As this is the case I will of course be making no further payments on this agreement, any further action on your part to enforce will be vigorously contested.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies including any defaults. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

I shall also be considering further action to recover unlawfully applied interest and charges that have been levied on the “Agreement”.

 

NOTE: You won't actually be doing the last bit, you are just stating that you are considering it.

 

I would then just pass the matter over to the FOS.

[dera2005]

Thanks for the info Rory do you think i should still send the above even though i have already invoked the FOS

 

also if you get a chance could you have a quick look at something else for me your insight on it would mean alot to me

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/telecoms-mobile-fixed/111462-deravst-mobile.html#post1089958

 

Many thanks for all your help Rory and everyone

 

dera.

[rory32]

I would send it just to make your position clear to HFC.

[dera2005]

ok will do many thanks rory

[dera2005]

Help needed quick.....

 

Just had a phone call from some woman from executive complaint reference my fax i sent to them as rory suggested.

 

She called to say she will have a look into my issues raised in the above letter and would come back to me tommorow.

 

She explained that as far as she was aware the agreement doesnt have to be signed by my self.

 

What i was wondering is depending on what she comes back with tommorow.

 

Should i mention about the different amount being deducted from my account and whats stated on their statement of acount e.g. 78.08 is stated on the CCA yet £79.09 is being deducted from my bank account and 79.09 is shown on the statement of account.

 

Also should i mention that i did not sign for PPI yet am being charged for it. I have also found my original paperwork for this but havent sent it to the onbudsman yet and it doesnt have my signature or the branch stamp stating that it was issued. Finally should i mention that i have located a copy of my originial agreement again not signed but the fact that the dates of signing are different on behalf of the bank. My original is dated the 18.11.03 there copy is dated the 19.11.03.

 

See im worried that if i give them all my evidence that they will mereley correct theres to match it. Then when the Financial ombudsman conduct there investigation that they will find nothing wrong ect.

 

Please anyone with some legal know how please help me out.

[dera2005]

So im thinking i should keep my mouth shut any thoughts on this.

 

also is it true what HFC say about not having to provide a signed copy by me to me

[dera2005]

does anyone know also if they cant find that i have signed for the PPI if the agreement is invalid also

since the agreement does include PPI premiums

 

Im sooo confused Please help

[rory32]

She explained that as far as she was aware the agreement doesnt have to be signed by my self.

 

Then she should try reading sections 61(1) (proper execution of agreements) and sections 127(3) (judicial control and enforcement) of the Act. To be honest she probably hasn't read any of the Act.

 

Certainly you can inform them that PPI has been ticked on the alledged copy of the agreement you have received when you would have not ticked PPI.

 

Not sure about giving them any further info, as you say there is always the worry that they will amend things accordingly.

[dera2005]

Cheers for that rory I will let them know about the PPI and if they said i have agreed to this i will ask them for proof although they wont find any cos i aint signed it lol also I will keep my mouth shut about the difference in amounts and dates etc

[dera2005]

Hello All

 

The lady for executive complaints called today to advise that they can no longer disscuss my case since it is now in the hands of the financial ombudsman and to do so would be seen as a conflict of interest.

 

I have now faxed over my unsigned and unstamped PPI documents to the FOS for them to add to my case file.

 

So now i guess i just sit back and wait.

 

I will post an update as soon as i have some more info

 

I would like to thank everyone for all there help with this matter and will be in touch shortly.

 

Dera.

[Penfold92]

Hi Dera,

 

thanks by the way!

 

Anyway regarding your situation, it is up to you how you proceed. You have left the case in the hands of the FOS, but in my opinion that is a waste of time as they just completely threw my case out (woolwich one) yet I do appear to be getting somewhere in court! They did not even look at the facts properly. In a way I was happy about that so I could push on with my claim.

 

You mentioned the lady calling you, well one thing I do agree with on here is anyone calling you from the Bank or lender should be told in no uncertain terms to "put it in writing!". That way you get something to use against them as they often write jibberish or inaccurate facts in their letters. I have a whole pile of rubbish from the Woolwich that will be going into my bundle! (Laughs to himself!)

 

With regards you wanting a refund that Rory said would not happen. Well he is right and especially on the moral side of it. I on the other hand have been through a fair bit with greedy and loose lenders and to be frank believe they should get everything they deserve.

 

I am pursuing for a refund, as you already knew from my threads, and I am pretty sure they will not turn up in court to defend, but if they do they will be fined heavily for the breaches and errors they have made. The choice is theris I guess... As a result I will get my refunds even if I probably should not be entitled to them! Take me down by using the Law and I will return the compliment using the Law!

 

I hope this will open the door and give others the confidence to do the same.

 

Good luck,

 

Penfold

[dera2005]

ok guys & gals quick update the FOS have passed the file back to HFC Bank due to my points raised with regards to the PPI

 

I have spoken to HFC today and they have advised that they are having a hard time locating the documents they are going to check my legal agreement and come back to me with a final resposnse tommorow.

 

My issue is although PPI appears on the agreement i did not request it and have paperwork showing that i did not agree to its execution.

 

although im not sure if the FOS have passed these documents on to HFC.

 

The lady at HFC explained that if they ar able to see that the PPI was infact incorrectly placed on the account that this would be removed and I would be refunded the costs.

 

This is where im confused because if they do refund the money that i have paid towards the PPI do they refund me the money to my bank account, then rework the loan showing no ppi. Or do they offset it from the loan and use it to pay off whats remaining?

 

 

Also I think if they do refund whats been paid then this would make the issue of the so called default of which i never recieved invalid since the defaulted amount would indeed be incorrect since the balance would of been incorrect owing to the PPI premium.

 

Also does anyone know if im entitled to any form of compensation because of this mess or is the fact that they may refund the ppi there form of compensation.

 

Advice Please peeps since im now at a loss lol

 

Many Thanks

 

Dera.