DVLA Fine

[cazpoppies]

Hi Guys,

 

Not sure if it's advice I want or just sympathy!!!

 

Long story but I'll keep it as short as possible.

Basically I couldn't afford to tax my car so I SORNed it and kept it off road (or so I thought) I left it in a car park!! Now I accept that this is officially classed as a public road and paid the 2 parking fines that were put on the car. Unfortunately there is nowhere I could put the car that was "off road" so to avoid further fines and although it broke my heart I reluctantly had to scrap a perfectly good car.

Then to my horror I received 2 further fines from the DVLA saying that the two parking offences had been reported to them and they were looking for an out of court settlement for £96 and £178 respectively for the two reported offences which had to be paid within 14 days and could not be paid in instalments!!

 

I suppose what I want to know is -

 

Is it right to be fined twice (x2) for having an unlicenced vehicle in the same week?

What is likely to happen if it does go to court as there is no way I can pay £274 within 14 days?

 

Any help or advice good or bad would be welcomed.:-?

[Rob S]

Caz,

 

Can you elaborate on how DVLA are involved in respect of the parking tickets please? And what is the timescale of these events?

[cazpoppies]

Hi Rob.

 

The letter from the DVLA states that the original penalties were for not displaying a valid excise licence and the details of the offence are then passed to the Agency to establish whether the vehicle was licenced on the date of the offence. This is a seperate offence.

 

As far as timesales go, both tickets were issued within a week of each other and the letters from the DVLA came about two weeks later.

 

I am contemplating writing to the Agency with an offer of payment by instalments. (although their letter says that this is unacceptable) I would hope that this will be looked upon favourably by the courts if it gets to that stage.

[Rob S]

Are they prosecuting you for failing to display your tax disc AND not having a tax disc?

[cazpoppies]

Hi Rob,

 

Yes that's pretty much it.

[Rob S]

If you don't have a tax disc, you don't have one to display, and their records would show that. As I understand it they should only be going after you for not having a current tax disc on the day in question.

[cazpoppies]

Actually Rob, They're not threatening court over the penalty of not displaying a tax disc, I've paid those fines (£80). They're threatening legal action over the fines for not having a tax disc (£274).

[Rob S]

Is the £274 their demand for back tax on the vehicle, even though you have scrapped it?

[cazpoppies]

No, it's not a demand for back tax, it's an out of court settlement offer.

 

Doesn't seem to be any formula for working these figures out, one was for £96 and the other for £178 dated a week apart. The car had only been SORNed for 2 months and was taxed prior to this.

 

ps. I have till Friday 29th July to pay before they start court proceedings!

[Rob S]

That does seem very odd. How on earth have they arrived at these figures, especially as you have already paid 2 £80 fines for not displaying a tax disc? Have they informed you in their letters what legislation they are using to "enable" you to settle up before they intitiate court proceedings? And what court proceedings are they threatening, is it in the county court?

[cazpoppies]

The letter is headed "Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994"

Doesn't state what form the court proceedings would take.

There is an information leaflet INF51 but there is no link to it on the website.

[Rob S]

I suspect it would be magistrates court. It looks to me as if DVLA are trying to settle before court so that they get money in their coffers. If it goes to magistrates court and you are fined then the fines would go straight to the treasury.

 

I'm wondering if you should write to them to ask why it is having paid 2 fines for failing to display that they are now being pursued for not having the tax, especially as at the time of the fail to display the vehicle was not taxed? The offence of failing to display the road tax is usually in relation to where a vehicle is actually taxed but it is not displayed. It looks to me as if they are trying to have 2 bites of the cherry.

 

 

 

Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994 (c. 22)

[patdavies]

It appears that the original 'parking tickets' had absolutely nothing to do with parking and were, in fact, FPNs for failure to display.

 

Failure to display is a police matter and is dealt with by them via the Magistrates' Court if necessary. They also inform the DVLA.

 

The DVLA have now come after the OP for having an untaxed vehicle on the public highway and are imposing a penalty plus back tax.

 

These are two entirely separate offences and dealt with separately.

 

I am somewhat surprised that they have tried to apply two penalties as I would consider it a continuing offence and only the greater penalty should be payable.

[Sidewinder]

This all sounds very similar to the one and only time that I have fallen foul of the DVLA. Registered the wife's car SORN as we were waiting for it to be sold, thought it was on a private land - turned out it wasn't. The Community Wardens operating at the time were paying local kids £1 a time for every untaxed vehicle they could find in the area and we got summonsed for two offences within a week. Would not entertain arguments, nor would I settle prior to court but sent a lengthy letter of mitigation to the Court and fined a nominal £25 for each offence plus £60 costs. Not allowed to pay by instalments as I have a credit card - pay up immediately or else.

 

The fine was less than the DVLA wanted out of court, but after the inclusion of costs it worked out about the same.

[Rob S]

At least DVLA didn't get the proceeds of the fine Sidewinder.

[cazpoppies]

Pat, you have called it exactly right.

 

Sidewinder thanks for your input.

 

I realise that I am in the wrong on this one, the thing that bothers me is that I have to pay £274 within 14 days or they will take me to court. Well I don't have a credit card or £274 slushing around so it looks like court!!

 

Cheers.

[StormWarrior]

Was the car park a public road ?

 

This may seem a silly question but for the purposes of Road Tax , the land, road or car park has to be 'maintained at public expence' And that does not include many Council owned carparks.

I park in a parking bay adjacent to council flats, and it turns out that because it's associated with the flats it is NOT a public road.

 

Just an idea.

[sanddancer]

Have you informed the DVLA that you are no longer the keeper of the car.

If not there may be another penalty of £40.00 in the post.For failing to inform

them that the car was scraped or changed ownership...

[cazpoppies]

StormWarrior,

 

Unfortunately it seems that it was.

It is the local swimming pool car park and the whole street parks here at night as traffic wardens patrol the street we live on from early in the morning. This is why I thought I would be okay there.

 

Sanddancer,

 

Thankfully yes, and I got a reply from them confirming it so no fine this time!!

 

Does anyone have any idea what is likely to happen if this goes to court?

ie. What sort of fine? costs etc....

[StormWarrior]

local swimming pool car park

 

There is still a chance that it is not a public road as defined by the act.

If it is owned and operated by the local council, it may not be 'maintained at the public expense'.

A quick trip to the local council offices and enquire who maintains it and who is liable for its maintainance. Don't say why, or hint at liability, might even be in the swimming pool operators contract.

Are there ticket machines which 'contribute to the maintainance costs'?

[cazpoppies]

Hi Stormwarrior,

 

Will call the council tomorrow, it's a long shot but you never know.

 

Thanks for your advice.

[StormWarrior]

As Lee Harvey Oswald once said "It's the long shots that change history"

 

Ok, so he didn't say it, I did, but you get the point

[bluedog2]

Would it not have been cheaper to have paid the Road Tax?

 

Hope you have got it sorted and the next car you have will be taxed and no problems...

 

I was fortunate... I've got a drive so was able to get SORN.

 

BUT I forgot to send the form they sent to me to say it was still off road..really stupid of me I know (the time went so quick..couldn't beleive it was a year!)...and was fined £60... Which I paid cursing myself all the way to the Post Office...LOL!

IF I get another car I will not be making the same mistake.. Which goes to the opening question.....

In my case yes!....it would have been cheaper...!

[Rob S]

The best way to declare SORN is to do it online. Once you have done it they send a confirmation e-mail straightaway. You then have cast iron proof that you made the declaration. I wouldn't do it any other way.

[bluedog2]

Hi... Rob S

I sent it off via the post and received the SORN notice..this was before I had the computer...

They sent me a reminder and I thought "its not time for that yet" and promptly forgot about it until I got the letter about the fine...

It was no way their fault.. I just was on another planet at the time..lol!