citi cards CCA request does not apply me too

[gill5blue]

Hi

I have recieved a letter from citi cards stating they do not have to supply the CCA??????????

 

GILL

[megan34]

I think most of us do:) what reason did they give this time?

[gill5blue]

Here is the letter I recieved

what do you think?

[wednesday1867]

Gill, when did you send your CCA request?

 

Citi's initial 12 days is up this friday, sent the sar and cca together, not heard anything in return

[gill5blue]

Hi

I sent SAR and CCA 22ND May

and this is what I recieved plus about 12 pages of waffle

Gill

[wednesday1867]

CCA 22ND May

 

So they are already in criminal default?

[ricky1]

i had the same thing with mine so will be intresting to see the out come

[gill5blue]

Hi

Yes they are now in criminal default, but im not sure they would admit to this, I find it slightly confusing that you have a right to request a true copy of the agreement and CITI state they do not have to??????????

Gill

[wednesday1867]

Have you sent anything else since receiving that letter? Continued paying them etc?

[gill5blue]

hi

i sent a reminder for cca 14th june

no i have stopped paying them--hat should make them jump

Gill

[rincewindrunnin]

i too have received the we dont have to supply the cca and 12 pages of twaddle updated in may 2007 of t&c's which have been nicely updated with charge fee's of 12 pounds.

 

What are they hiding? barclaycard not only sent me original agreement, signed, but also sent me original t&c's to boot! Methinks citi need some new solicitors who know what they are doing.

[gill5blue]

Hi rince

what have you responded with?

Gill

[dpick]

Hi rince

what have you responded with?

Gill

 

I think I would respond with somthing along the lines of I requested a true copy of my original credit agreement under s77-s79 of CCA act 1974. As you have not supplied an agreement I must assume that no agreement exists and I have stopped all payments etc.

 

This is just my opinion all the best dpick:D

[miss muppet]

Hi gill, yes my OH got exactly the same reply, do forum search Consumer Credit Agreements Resources/workshop, some excellent template letters there - we did our letter in May and only get statements showing charges and interest added but no more telephone calls (not until I've posted this anyway!), have just sent in report to Trading Standards as they didn't comply with SAR either, just shout if you need any more help:)

[surprise]

I have received the same letter and I have responded with the following paragraphs inserted.

 

Furthermore, in the event that you are considering litigation, your attention is drawn to CPR 4.6 © enclose copies of documents asked for by the claimant, or explain why they are not enclosed;

I would therefore request, in compliance with CPR 4.6© a copy of the document that you will be relying on as proof that a properly executed agreement, complying in all respects with the form and content requirements of the CCA, was signed by myself in respect of this alleged debt.

 

Be also advised that your statutory time period has elapsed and YOU are now in default and very shortly you will have committed a criminal offence.

As you are now in default NO further action can be taken on this account until such a time as the original SIGNED EXECUTED documents are made available to me.

 

I expect, in accordance with CPR, your prompt response to this formal request without further delay.

[rincewindrunnin]

Hi Gill, i have drafted a response in line with the previous posts, but thanks to surprise i will be adding a little bit more now!!

 

i recommend checking out some of the threads in the debt collection section on this site as they cover cca's a bit more there.

 

still waiting from court as they said AQ is being dispensed with and i sent them info from citi stating i do not have an account with citicard!! so, my argument is citi's solicitor says i do not have an account, citi cannot provide cca therefore i have no debt with them and they have illegally obtained monies from me by deception.

 

i wonder how that will all go down....

 

which reminds me i need to update my citicard thread!

[surprise]

If you look in the Consumer Credit Agreements Thread, General Forum, PeterBard has given a brilliant response to this standard letter that Citi are sending out. Its over 400 pages, its around the last couple of pages.

[wednesday1867]

If you look in the Consumer Credit Agreements Thread, General Forum, PeterBard has given a brilliant response to this standard letter that Citi are sending out. Its over 400 pages, its around the last couple of pages.

 

 

Page 410 Post 8194

[rincewindrunnin]

Ok, here is a draft response to Citicard.... any thoughts?

Thank you for responding to my request regarding a copy of my credit agreement. I am disappointed you have not been able to fulfil my original request and have simply sent me a copy of Terms & Conditions that are dated 30 May 2007.

As you may be aware, the Act sets out that a valid agreement must exist in the prescribed form in order for that agreement to be executed. As it appears you are unable to provide a copy of the agreement in the prescribed form then it appears to me that there is no executable agreement in force.

I sincerely urge you to reconsider providing me with a copy of the original agreement as per the CCA 1974 to verify that an executable agreement does exist. Please note that simply sending the Terms & Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement. Sending Terms & Conditions does not fulfil this requirement.

If you are unable to provide a true copy of the original agreement, the required fee already having been received by you, then I will have no other option to assume you do not hold a valid credit agreement for my account and will be forced to pursue the necessary lines to ensure my position is not compromised as a consumer.

 

Furthermore, as litigation is currently in progress, your attention is drawn to CPR 4.6 © enclose copies of documents asked for by the claimant, or explain why they are not enclosed;

I would therefore request, in compliance with CPR 4.6© a copy of the document that you will be relying on as proof that a properly executed agreement, complying in all respects with the form and content requirements of the CCA, was signed by myself in respect of this alleged debt. If you are not able to supply such a copy then I contest the validity of any such debt and also request that monies taken from me for default charges be repaid immediately.

 

Be also advised that your statutory time period has elapsed and YOU are now in default and very shortly you will have committed a criminal offence.

 

As you are now in default NO further action can be taken on this account until such a time as the original SIGNED EXECUTED documents are made available to me.

As your own in-house solicitor, David Travis, has advised me that no account exists with CitiCard corresponding to my account number or address details then I will not be making any further payments until I receive the requested information. I also respectfully request that no interest is applied to my account until I have received the requested information and that if a valid agreement is supplied that interest is not applied retrospectively as this would be a punitive action as a result of your failings to provide substantiating information within statutory timeframes. Also no penalty or other such charges should be applied to the account in question whilst you attempt to supply me with the requested information.

 

I expect your prompt response to this formal request without further delay.

Not sure whether to add this from Peterbards letter though.....

As per section 127(3) of the act the minimum requirement for a court to consider enforcing a agreement of this type(Running account Credit) is that it should have the Debtor/ Hirer’s signature and all the prescribed terms contained in Statutory instruments 1983/1553 Schedule 6; As directed by section 60 of the Act

• Credit limit• Rate of interest • Repayments

If any of these items are missing then a court cannot enforce any agreement made and regulated by the Act prior to April 6th 2007.T

The absence of all other aspects of the agreement relating to form and content as defined in the Agreement Regulations (1983/1553) render the contract enforceable only by order of the court.

 

[surprise]

I think you probably got enough in the letter to get them on the run - you can always add that to another letter - I'm sure there'll be one to come:rolleyes:

[rincewindrunnin]

hehe cool!

[dpick]

Ok, here is a draft response to Citicard.... any thoughts?

 

Thank you for responding to my request regarding a copy of my credit agreement. I am disappointed you have not been able to fulfil my original request and have simply sent me a copy of Terms & Conditions that are dated 30 May 2007.

 

As you may be aware, the Act sets out that a valid agreement must exist in the prescribed form in order for that agreement to be executed. As it appears you are unable to provide a copy of the agreement in the prescribed form then it appears to me that there is no executable agreement in force.

 

I sincerely urge you to reconsider providing me with a copy of the original agreement as per the CCA 1974 to verify that an executable agreement does exist. Please note that simply sending the Terms & Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement. Sending Terms & Conditions does not fulfil this requirement.

 

If you are unable to provide a true copy of the original agreement, the required fee already having been received by you, then I will have no other option to assume you do not hold a valid credit agreement for my account and will be forced to pursue the necessary lines to ensure my position is not compromised as a consumer.

 

Furthermore, as litigation is currently in progress, your attention is drawn to CPR 4.6 © enclose copies of documents asked for by the claimant, or explain why they are not enclosed;

 

I would therefore request, in compliance with CPR 4.6© a copy of the document that you will be relying on as proof that a properly executed agreement, complying in all respects with the form and content requirements of the CCA, was signed by myself in respect of this alleged debt. If you are not able to supply such a copy then I contest the validity of any such debt and also request that monies taken from me for default charges be repaid immediately.

 

Be also advised that your statutory time period has elapsed and YOU are now in default and very shortly you will have committed a criminal offence.

 

As you are now in default NO further action can be taken on this account until such a time as the original SIGNED EXECUTED documents are made available to me.

 

As your own in-house solicitor, David Travis, has advised me that no account exists with CitiCard corresponding to my account number or address details then I will not be making any further payments until I receive the requested information. I also respectfully request that no interest is applied to my account until I have received the requested information and that if a valid agreement is supplied that interest is not applied retrospectively as this would be a punitive action as a result of your failings to provide substantiating information within statutory timeframes. Also no penalty or other such charges should be applied to the account in question whilst you attempt to supply me with the requested information.

 

I expect your prompt response to this formal request without further delay.

 

 

Not sure whether to add this from Peterbards letter though.....

 

As per section 127(3) of the act the minimum requirement for a court to consider enforcing a agreement of this type(Running account Credit) is that it should have the Debtor/ Hirer’s signature and all the prescribed terms contained in Statutory instruments 1983/1553 Schedule 6; As directed by section 60 of the Act

• Credit limit• Rate of interest • Repayments

If any of these items are missing then a court cannot enforce any agreement made and regulated by the Act prior to April 6th 2007.T

The absence of all other aspects of the agreement relating to form and content as defined in the Agreement Regulations (1983/1553) render the contract enforceable only by order of the court.

 

 

 

Hi when I had my MBNA agreement response checked I was advised unenforceable due to s127(3) with the three terms you quote missing plus "details of any power to vary the agreement" also quoted as a missing prescribed term. As you state any term missing not enforceable at all. Not saying you include this in letter but someone may be looking through thread and they may be missing this term on their agreement.

 

I have two catalogue's that have sent blank agreements (I never had an agreement to sign from them) so I will nick and amend your letter to suite if that OK.

 

all the best dpick:)

[gill5blue]

Page 410 Post 8194

Thankyou, but funnily that is in answer to my citi quiery which I had placed there to recieve more feedback

If you think that is great, I will study it, it looks good to me

[rincewindrunnin]

dpick.... feel free to use n abuse my letter lol if it helps then so much the better!

[wednesday1867]

Thankyou, but funnily that is in answer to my citi quiery which I had placed there to recieve more feedback

If you think that is great, I will study it, it looks good to me

 

I thought that was the letter surprise was referring to