can RBS default me after issuing a CCJ

[palomino]

CCJ2 issued 07/02/2003 RBS mastercard

 

This one is a month away from dropping off the Register. It doesn't actually go away, it just becomes invisible in that no-one can ever find it (not even you).

If RBS have made no effort to enforce repayment since the CCJ then they will need to apply to the court if they wish to do so after the six years expires.

In which case I would just forget about it.

[DocH]

I do not dispute what you say but I have to admit to being a little bemused by the “length of time” position.

 

First, the debt does not seem to be in dispute.

 

Second, the payments are made in the belief that the claimant has a legal right to enforce the debt.

 

Third, at some point during this period one discovers that the belief in the claimant’s integrity was a mistake and that the debt is not enforceable.

 

Finally, why would the length of time it took one (especially a litigant in person) to discover this mistake be a disadvantage in beginning an application to set aside?

 

I ask this in the spirit of enquirery because I know that the “length of time” position is generally held on the forum.

 

As I understand it, there are various bits of legislation/CPRs that require you act promptly to get a set-a-side of the judgement. What the definition of 'promptness' is I am unsure, but believe it may be as little as 28 days. Happy to be corrected if the experts on the forum have a different view.

 

However, there are other circumstances whereby the question of promptness is not relevant - such as an unenforceable Consumer Credit Agreement where there is a right under s142 of the Act to make a declaration.

 

In the case of the OP because he/she has given very little information it is not clear on what grounds, other than the possibility that there may be unlawful charges within the amounts claimed, that they are seeking a set-a-side. Which in itself does not mean the agreement was unenforceable, but is likely to mean that any Default Notices could be defective.

 

Hope that goes some way to explaining the situation.

[Martynandemma]

DocH,

 

I am hoping to have the RBS loan CCJ set aside because they did not issue me with a default notice & on the court claim form they claim that they did.

 

I also want to know why they claim to have issued a default notice on my bank account. I never defaulted my bank account in fact I had a nil balance & closed the account. The RBS didnt close the account down due to non payment of the loan. I sent a CCA to the RBS & received all statements but no loan agreements, no default notice letters.

 

the capital one CCJ is made up of about 30% penalty charges so the figures on the claim form will have been incorrect, they have also refused to refund the PPI.

 

Can I get them removed or is it to late, The default notices on my credit file I feel are also wrong

 

many thanks

 

Martyn&emma

[DocH]

DocH,

 

I am hoping to have the RBS loan CCJ set aside because they did not issue me with a default notice & on the court claim form they claim that they did. IMHO that in itself is not sufficient reason for a set-a-side. The issueing of a Default Notice is fundamental to a claimant bringing a court claim under the 1974 CCA - the fact that you did not receive one does not necessarily mean that one wasn't sent.

 

I also want to know why they claim to have issued a default notice on my bank account. I never defaulted my bank account in fact I had a nil balance & closed the account. The RBS didnt close the account down due to non payment of the loan. I sent a CCA to the RBS & received all statements but no loan agreements, no default notice letters.

 

the capital one CCJ is made up of about 30% penalty charges so the figures on the claim form will have been incorrect, they have also refused to refund the PPI.

 

Can I get them removed or is it to late, The default notices on my credit file I feel are also wrong

 

many thanks

 

Martyn&emma

 

The question is do you have the stamina and time to fight these. Just be aware at the end of the day the results you achieve may not be what you wanted. I honestly can't answer your question as to whether it's too late or not, a lot will depend on what you uncover with your research.

 

If you are prepared to fight then I think the first thing you need to do is send off a Subject Access Request to both these companies, to find out exactly what they do have in relation to these accounts. I see you have already submitted a CCA to RBS, which didn't bear any fruit.

 

This thread will give you the lowdown on SARs

 

This thread (post 13) contains a good letter to send off for your SAR (with thanks to Godmother who composed it)

Edited January 5, 2009 by DocH

[Martynandemma]

IMHO that in itself is not sufficient reason for a set-a-side. The issueing of a Default Notice is fundamental to a claimant bringing a court claim under the 1974 CCA - the fact that you did not receive one does not necessarily mean that one wasn't sent.

 

So if I ask them to provide a copy of said Default notice & they cannot provide it does this mean I am entitled to the CCJ being set - a - side ? by the way I made an error in my 1st posting I should of said I have sent the bank an SAR not a CCA. Upon checking my original SAR I didnt ask for copies of loan agreements etc so I assume they are wanting to be spoon fed on info. See below will this be enough to get them to provide the info I need or should it be a full £10 SAR ?

 

Royal Bank of Scotland Plc

Retail Regulatory Risk

Business House B

PO Box 1000

Edinburgh

EH12 1HQ

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Loan Account/Reference Number ***************

 

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

I understand a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Mr M

 

Whilst on the subject of loans is it legal for a bank to give you a loan to pay off their own loans ? RBS did it 3 times to me

[42man]

This thread might also help Martyandemma - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/171762-charging-order-help-please.html?highlight=miffedpuppy

[DocH]

IMHO that in itself is not sufficient reason for a set-a-side. The issueing of a Default Notice is fundamental to a claimant bringing a court claim under the 1974 CCA - the fact that you did not receive one does not necessarily mean that one wasn't sent.

 

So if I ask them to provide a copy of said Default notice & they cannot provide it does this mean I am entitled to the CCJ being set - a - side ? by the way I made an error in my 1st posting I should of said I have sent the bank an Subject Access Request not a CCA. Upon checking my original Subject Access Request I didnt ask for copies of loan agreements etc so I assume they are wanting to be spoon fed on info. See below will this be enough to get them to provide the info I need or should it be a full £10 Subject Access Request ?

 

Royal Bank of Scotland Plc

Retail Regulatory Risk

Business House B

PO Box 1000

Edinburgh

EH12 1HQ

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:− Loan Account/Reference Number ***************

 

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77−79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

I understand a copy of my credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Mr M

 

 

Whilst on the subject of loans is it legal for a bank to give you a loan to pay off their own loans ? RBS did it 3 times to me

 

I would be inclined to ask for everything that they've got on you and for every account (loans, current account and card accounts) - you never know it might thow up something interesting - you may as well get your money's worth!

 

Well it's not illegal, but it may have breached the OFT's debt managment guidelines. It would also depend on the circumstances - ie did you at any point feel you were pressured into taking out the loans by the bank?

Edited January 6, 2009 by DocH

[DocH]

So if I ask them to provide a copy of said Default notice & they cannot provide it does this mean I am entitled to the CCJ being set - a - side ?

 

Sorry I missed this point in my previous reply. They'll very likely provide you with a template (reconstructed from their records) because banks rarely keep copies of the original Default Notice. It will also depend very much on the information they say that was on the original default.

[debbbbsy]

Hi

You can send RBS a CCA request for your agreements. There response is standard & well documented on the forum,

" the CCJ is now our agreement with you, & we do not have to comply with your request".

Do it anyway, but don't hold your breath.

 

Finally, why would the length of time it took one (especially a litigant in person) to discover this mistake be a disadvantage in beginning an application to set aside?

 

I totally agree. Our CCJ's are 10 years old, weve only just discovered that the RBS have lied to us, misled there solicitor & the courts inorder to get judgement.We need a a high profile case to set a president. Watch out RBS, I know your watching......

 

Debs

[DocH]

Hi

You can send RBS a CCA request for your agreements. There response is standard & well documented on the forum,

" the CCJ is now our agreement with you, & we do not have to comply with your request".

Do it anyway, but don't hold your breath.

Debs

 

If they do that then remind them of their legal requirement under the Act that they must provide a copy of the agreement when a consumer forwards a request made under the Act. Yes the CCJ is the enforcement document for the debt which is not being disputed. IMHO this does not absolve them from meeting a legitimate request for a copy of the agreement. If they continue to refuse it might be worth making a complaint to the FOS (for all that that's worth).

 

As you're making the request under an SAR you can report the bank to the Information Commisioners office, for failing to provide the documents requested under the Data Protection Act.

[debbbbsy]

As you're making the request under an Subject Access Request you can report the bank to the Information Commisioners office, for failing to provide the documents requested under the Data Protection Act.

 

did that 7 months ago, weve had confirmation, they are handling our complaint.problem is they are overwhelmed by complaints and can't cope.

 

Debs

[DocH]

An alternative method would be to take them (the bank) to court to force the issue.

 

You have a legitimate right under the Act to ask a creditor for a copy of your executed agreement. They have a legal duty under the Act to provide it. It does not matter that the debt is now enforced by a CCJ. That does not, IMHO, discharge the creditor from meeting its legal obligations under the Act to supply the agreement. You have a further right under S142 of the Act to make a declaration about the enforceability of the agreement during proceedings and how can you exercise that right without a copy of said agreement.

 

I am not a legal trained person, so you may want to get an opinion from either pt2537 or surfaceagentx20.

[debbbbsy]

We are currently looking at using the Court Procedures Rule, to force them to disclose information.

This is only 1 part , of many issues we have with the RBS.

 

Debs

[DocH]

We are currently looking at using the Court Procedures Rule, to force them to disclose information.

This is only 1 part , of many issues we have with the RBS.

 

Debs

 

You have had a rough old time of it with this lot, along with Paul Walton.

[Martynandemma]

RBS have double standards

 

My brother in law is with RBS & he got all his charges refunded straight away. But he is a police officer.

 

I ask for my charges back they um & are for 8 weeks & then they get the stay from the courts & I have been waiting ever since. I am going to try & get something done due to financial hardship (long term unemployed & living off benefits)

 

Oh & what a lovelly surprise in the mail Geoffrey Parker Bourne have now got my credit card debt handed on from APEX. So now my debt has been from RBS to westcott, to court, to GPB to Apex & now back to GPB again

[Martynandemma]

I currently have 3 CCJs

 

1 to RBS, 1 RBS masercard & 1 capital one

 

I have not payed any money on these for over a year now due to being unemployed.

 

I went to the CCCS about my debt situation to try & work something out, we did the interview & they wondered why I had not been paying the amounts the court had ordered I said cos I was unemployed & did not know I had to tell the courts of any changes.

 

Does anyone have any advice on what I should do about these ? To be honest I thought I would of heard from them if I wasnt paying what I was supposed to bud there you go

 

many thanks

 

martyn

[Martynandemma]

bump!

[palomino]

If they have no intention of enforcing the court order then I would shrug my shoulders and forget about it. But that's what I would do ...

 

However they may emerge at some point in the future. You should, if you want to do things properly, apply to the court for a variation of the order stating that your circumstances have changed and you are unable to pay the amounts originally ordered (presumably you were ordered to pay monthly amounts?).

I believe the form to use is N245. There will be a fee (not sure how much) to lodge the form. You will need one form (and consequently one fee) for each of the debts.

[Martynandemma]

thats pretty much what I thought, I am certainly tempted to wait & see what happens.

 

for RBS mastercard a debt collection agent started sending me loads of letters & then I started to get calls every couple of days. the guy threatened me with court action if I didnt start paying. I pointed out to him that it had already gone to court about 5 years ago. He got very shirty saying "I dont think it has sir!!" after 5 mins of arguing I said I had a court reference number. Then he started to be very nice & said could I send them a copy of it & he would get in touch with RBS to find out why they sent it to the debt collectors.

 

I am sending cap one an LBA for pen charges & PPI payments this week, I suppose as this was in 2006 there is no chance of getting the CCJ recinded on the grounds that a 3rd of the debt is penalty charges.

 

CCJ 3 is an RBS loan & I have not payed them for over a year (they never sent me a default notice but I did get claim forms from the courts for (£22000! ouch) this one started back in 2005

 

If a CCJ is not fully paid up in 6years does it still come off of your credit file ? & if it does then can the creditor re apply for a default / followed by another CCJ

[palomino]

If a CCJ is not fully paid up in 6years does it still come off of your credit file ? & if it does then can the creditor re apply for a default / followed by another CCJ

 

Yes and No (you can only get one CCJ for a debt - but make sure you keep all your paperwork very safe and secure in case they try it on).

[Martynandemma]

If I got a CCJ in 2005 & have not payed a monthly payment for a while now does it become statute barred 6 years from the last payment made.

 

Or is it statute barred from when I was last contacted by the DCA

 

Example I got a CCJ in Oct 2005 made some monthly payments but stopped paying 2 1/2 years ago in 01/2007 . I last received a letter 2 years ago in 07/2007

 

so when is it statute barred ?

 

manythanks

 

martynandemma

[twofoot]

In a word no they don't get SB'd. However if they don't pursue you for 6 years then come after you they are unlikely to be able to enforce if they take you back to court. They would need a very good reason as to why they left you alone for so long.

[Martynandemma]

so if they dont pursue me for the debt for 6 years then try to pursue it technically the courts should tell them where to go. It will drop off my credit file as well will it not ??

 

So it will be sort of like having it statute barred

[sam614]

hi.it will fall off your credit file after 6 years

it is then also removed from central court records.

 

if it has not been enforced they need permission from the court,and a good reason why it has taken so long,but it could happen.like if you have avaided.moved around.etc.

 

if it is sold to DCA they have 6 calendar months from purchase date to enforce,that is if it is over 6 years and they have DOA and original court details(as they have been removed)

 

12 calandar months if under 6 years and they still need DOA

 

SAM:pLOWELL DETESTER

[Martynandemma]

I sent a CCA request to RBS bank for copies of loan agreements they replied saying they needed the account numbers (which I dont know!!) what can I do.

 

I also sent an SAR to RBS for the mastercard & all I got back was a sheet of A4 paper with some 0's on it. not much for my £10