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    • Morning dx and thank you for your message.   With regards to your comment about them not needing to produce the deed, the additional directions ordered by the judge included 'a copy of any assignment o the debt or agreement relied upon'  so that is why I thought that point was relevant?
    • Sorry for the long post but I don't want to miss out any relevant information: My wife bought a car from Trade Centre UK and have been having nothing but trouble with it. Unfortunately we paid of the finance used to buy the car as we weren't expecting this much trouble with the car as we we though we would have protection as buying from a dealer. We are wondering if we can still reject the vehicle since the finance plan has been paid off. Timeline is as follows: 13/12/2023 -15/12/2023 Bought car from Trade Centre UK for £10548 £2000 deposit paid on credit card on 13/12/2023 £8548 on finance from Moneybarn (arranged through Trade Centre UK). picked up car on 15/12/2023 Also bought lifetime warranty for £50/month 25/12/2023 Engine Management Light comes on. The AA called out and diagnosed the following error codes: P0133 - Lambda sensor (bank 1, sensor 1) Oxygen Sensor. Error Message : Slow reaction. Error sporadic P0135 - Lambda sensor heat. circ.(bank1,sensor1) Oxygen Sensor. Error Message : Component defective Due to it being Christmas took a few days to get through to them but they booked me in for 28/12/2023 to run their own diagnostics. 28/12/2023 Took car in to Trade Centre so could check the car – They agreed it was the Oxygen Sensor and Booked me in for repair on 30/01/2024. I was told they had no earlier slots, and I would be fine to carry on driving car when I said I was afraid of problem worse. During diagnosing the problem, they reset the Engine Management Light. During drive home light comes back on. 29/12/2023 - 29/01/2024 I carry on driving the car but closer to the date, engine goes to reduced power every now and again – not being a mechanic I presumed that this was due to above fault. 20/01/2024 Not expecting any more problems paid off the finance on the car using personal loan from bank with lower interest rate. 30/01/2024 Trade Centre replace to O2 sensor (They also take it on a roughly 60mile road trip which seems a bit excessive to me – I can’t prove this as something prompted me take a picture of milage when I handed car in but I forgot take one on collection – only remembered next day.) 06/02/2024 Engine goes in reduced power mode again and engine management light comes on – Thinking the Trade centre’s 28 day warranty period was over I booked the car the into local garage for the next day to get problem fixed under the lifetime warranty package. Fault seems to clear after engine was switched off. 07/02/2024 In the Morning, I take it to local garage who say as the light gone off – the warranty company is unlikely to cover the cost of the repair or diagnostics and recommend I contact them when the light comes back on. In the evening the light comes back on and luckily I manage to get it back to the garage just before it shuts for the day. 08/02/2024 The Garage sends me a diagnostics video showing a lot error codes been picked up by their diagnostics machine including codes for Oxygen sensor and Nox Sensors, Accelerator pedal and several more. Video also shows EGR Hose not connected to the intake manifold properly, they believed this was confusing the onboard system as it is unlikely this many sensors would trigger at same the time but they couldn’t be certain until they repaired the hose. 13/02/2024 Finally get the car back as it took a while to get approval and payment for the repairs from the Warranty company. Garage told me to keep an eye the car as errors had cleared with the hose but couldn’t 100% certain that’s what caused the problem. 06/03/2024 Engine management light comes on again. Fed up I go into Trade Centre as I was just around the corner when it happened and asked them how to reject the car or have the problem fixed. They insist that as it’s over 28 days I need to get the car fixed under the warranty package I purchased and they could no longer fix the car as it was over 28 days. When I tried telling them it appeared to be the same or related problem they said they couldn’t help as I hadn’t contacted them earlier. I asked them if they were willing to connect the car to the diagnostics machine and tell me what the problem was, as a goodwill gesture, which he agreed to do and took the car to the back He came back around 30 minutes later and said they took a look at the sensor they replaced previously and there was nothing wrong with it and engine management light went off when they removed the sensor to check it. When I asked what the error code he couldn’t give me an exact fault but the said it one of the problems I told him earlier (Accelerator pedal). I have this visit audio recorded on my phone – I informed the reps I was recording several times. As the light wasn’t on, local garage couldn’t book me for a repair under warranty. 07/03/2024 Light came on so managed to book back into local garage for the 12/03/2024 Whilst waiting to take car into garage, I borrowed a OBD sensor and scanned for errors on the car. This showed the following errors: P11BE – Manufacturer specific code (Google showed this to be NOX sensor) P0133 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Response too Slow 12/03/2024 Took car to local garage and the confirmed the above errors. This leads me to believe that either Trade Centre UK reps lied and just reset the light or just didn’t check properly (Obviously I am unable to prove this) 22/03/2024 Finally got the car back as according to garage, the warranty company took a long to time to pay for the repairs 28/04/2024 Engine management Light has come back on. Using the borrowed OBD scanner I am getting the following codes: P0133 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Response too Slow P2138 - Accelerator Position Sensors (G79) / (G185): Implausible Correlation I have not yet booked into a garage as I wanted to see what my rights are in terms of rejecting the car as to me the faults seem related. I can’t keep using taxi or train to get to work every time the car goes into the garage as it is getting very expensive. Am I right in thinking that they have used up their chance to repair when they conducted the repair end of January or when they refused to repair it in February ? If I am still able to reject the vehicle could you point to any sample letters or emails I can use. Thankyou for your advice on my next steps.
    • Ok noted about the screenshot uploads. In terms of screwing up I had one previous ticket that defaulted and ended up in a CCJ from Southend airport because for some reason during COVID I didn't receive their claim form just a notice of default. This hospital ticket was the 2nd ticket that went to CCJ due to a lack of knowledge of the process. Maybe it's easier just to pay them in future I'm thinking though, I don't get them very often anyway
    • Car maker takes a hit from weakening demand and price war in the world's largest electric vehicle market.View the full article
    • please stop posting up unnecessary unnamed screenshot files  you've done it throughout your threads and we have to renamed them. RENAME THE FILE before you upload if its just text information like a defence or a claim history or a link to a previous post  type it here not by an unnamed screenshot attachment  . sorry NM but you've been here dealing with PPC claims since 2021 somehow you always manage to screw up.......or do totally the opposite of std repeated advice on 10'000 of PPC threads here you are your own worst enemy... dx  
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Ah Rotten Bailiffs, this is recent one of many!

 

Hi I would be grateful on some advice briefly:

 

On the 22nd May 2007 early morning, I find that my car (our only means of transport) in my Disabled parking bay unlawfulyClamped by the bailiffs thus seizing the car. For an alleged contravention on the 22nd Nov 2006 I don’t believe I was in UK at the time and the fact the matter was being addressed through Northampton county court.

 

Having contacted them to release the illegal clamp, hour or so later they turn up demanding £557.57 (massive rise from around £40) to release the car with threats and intimidation. We only managed to raise £400 with a lot of difficulty, which they were happy to take before releasing the car and leaving a receipt in the same. Made quite a scene in the street. Notices of intended legal action dated were sent all 3 below on the 2nd June 07 by recorded delivery which they have yet to respond to.

 

1. Penalty issued by London Borough of Waltham Forest

2. Certificate granted by Shorditch county court and under a warrant issued with the authority of the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton.

3. Bailiffs “Task Enforcement” The Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993.

 

QUESTION WHOM DO I SUE! Which I am about to. I am used to suing the police the council etc.

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Imran

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Welcome to the site.

Have moved your thread here where you should get good advice.

 

Will also post this in the parking and traffic wardens forums as there is equally good help in this area there too.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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this is a good question - the bailiff is acting as the councils agent - why not join them as co defendants?

 

You can still use a Pt4 complaint as an opening move - see discussion paper below

 

& you have checked the certification of the individual bailiff - it appears Task don't have that many registered in their co name (but lots in other co names)

 

What remedies are currently available to those aggrieved by bailiffs’ actions? There are trade body complaints procedures (the Association of Enforcement Agencies and Enforcement Services Association), there are complaints to the relevant ombudsman and there are, of course, court claims for wrongful distraint or execution. In addition, there is the process of complaint against the county court certificate. It is a much neglected remedy, but in light of the plan to expand certification, it has become necessary for practitioners to revisit this process and reassess its potential.

 

The certification complaints procedure has the potential to be a very effective tool for setting standards in the industry and excluding undesirable individuals. The court has the power to revoke certificates and/or to award compensation. Certificated bailiffs must maintain a bond or indemnity to the value of £10,000 and this may be forfeit in whole or in part to cover damages and court costs if the court finds against a bailiff on a complaint.

Clearly, even the threat of a complaint can be a salutary experience for a bailiff, as the ultimate sanction can be exclusion from the business. For the complainant, moreover, the procedure is highly accessible: a very simple complaints form is filed in the relevant court without any fee being payable, and the bailiff must respond to this within 14 days. If no response is received, or if the judge considers it to be satisfactory, a hearing will be arranged at which the parties can be heard fully and in person.

[/url]

The draft Tribunals, Court & Enforcement Bill provides a practical opportunity to revive the little used complaint procedure against bailiffs’ certification, says John Kruse

In brief

  • certification has been much neglected but could provide an effective means of regulating the industry ;
  • past case law indicates the potential scope of the process: judges have revoked bailiffs’ certificates for charging unlawful fees and for other abuses of their powers.

The draft Tribunals, Courts & Enforcement Bill published on 25 July by the Department of Constitutional Affairs will introduce significant changes to bailiffs’ law. Part 3, in particular, proposes major reforms: a single code of law and a single fee scale. The plan to create a single regulator, such as the Security Industry Authority, has been shelved in the wake of the Hampton Review, but instead there will be a major expansion of the present system of county court certification. At present, it is an obscure procedure that does not apply to all bailiffs (see below). The Bill (clause 45) envisages that, in future, all bailiffs will be required to a hold a certificate unless they are government staff or court officers. The remodelled certification process will become of prime importance as a means of regulating those who enter the enforcement industry and how they behave.

 

Complaining against county court certificates

 

What remedies are currently available to those aggrieved by bailiffs’ actions? There are trade body complaints procedures (the Association of Enforcement Agencies and Enforcement Services Association), there are complaints to the relevant ombudsman and there are, of course, court claims for wrongful distraint or execution. In addition, there is the process of complaint against the county court certificate. It is a much neglected remedy, but in light of the plan to expand certification, it has become necessary for practitioners to revisit this process and reassess its potential.

 

Private bailiffs who levy distress for rent, distraint for council tax and business rates and execution for road traffic penalties (parking penalties, bus lane violations and congestion charges) all have to hold a certificate from a county court. The certificate is granted if the court is satisfied that the bailiff is a “fit and proper person”. In reality, the certification process is not much of a test of the applicant’s character or knowledge as the court is unable to check any of the statements made on the application and the judge seldom has the time or information to test the applicant properly. However, the Distress for Rent Rules 1988, which regulate the process, also provide a procedure whereby an aggrieved individual can complain against a certificated bailiff (Distress for Rent Rules 1988 (SI no 2050), as amended by SI no 2360).

 

The certification complaints procedure has the potential to be a very effective tool for setting standards in the industry and excluding undesirable individuals. The court has the power to revoke certificates and/or to award compensation. Certificated bailiffs must maintain a bond or indemnity to the value of £10,000 and this may be forfeit in whole or in part to cover damages and court costs if the court finds against a bailiff on a complaint. Clearly, even the threat of a complaint can be a salutary experience for a bailiff, as the ultimate sanction can be exclusion from the business. For the complainant, moreover, the procedure is highly accessible: a very simple complaints form is filed in the relevant court without any fee being payable, and the bailiff must respond to this within 14 days. If no response is received, or if the judge considers it to be satisfactory, a hearing will be arranged at which the parties can be heard fully and in person.

 

An under-used procedure

 

The problem with certification is that, despite its potential, it has fallen into desuetude. The most recent reported complaint dates from 1991 (Manchester City Council v Robinson, Legal Action vol 10) and was not an encouraging example of the complaints procedure’s possible effectiveness. A certificated bailiff was accused of levying wrongfully for rent arrears after obtaining a suspended possession order for the same sum, of using incorrect documentation and of entering illegally using a landlord’s pass key. Although the court acknowledged the wrongfulness of all these actions, it declined to cancel the certificate; rather the bailiff had to pay £100 costs and gave an assurance that his paperwork would be updated to be brought in line with the forms prescribed in the 1988 Rules.

 

The Robinson case does not suggest that certification complaints are a productive route to redress for a client. However, the procedure has to be given another chance, in part because certification has by no means always been toothless and because of the growing evidence that many large bailiffs’ companies are flouting the law by allowing uncertificated bailiffs to undertake work for which a certificate is required.

 

Stemming abuses

 

The certification process was introduced by the Law of Distress Amendment Act 1888. The measure was a response to widespread public concern about the behaviour and qualifications of private bailiffs. County court judges from the outset used the new powers enthusiastically and proactively. They saw the new process as a means not only of disciplining wayward bailiffs, but of more generally regulating standards within the industry. Certificates need to be renewed periodically and some judges took the opportunity to quiz individual bailiffs on their knowledge of their powers and also to address them en masse on the standards expected of them.

 

For example, HHJ Parry at Manchester county court in 1910 warned that certificate holders had to act with discretion and discrimination. They had duties to all the parties involved – to the creditor, to the debtor, to the wider community – and to the court that awarded the certificate by ensuring that the poor were protected and that exempt goods were not seized in distress (Taylor v Ashworth [1910] 129 LT 578).

 

From the determinations made in individual complaints against certificated bailiffs, it may be further stated that certificated bailiffs must maintain the highest standards of behaviour when levying, avoiding rudeness, violence and drunkenness. Other unfit or improper behaviour which could lead to revocation of a certificate includes criminal acts such as assault, civil wrongs such as negligence and the detention of goods despite payment by the debtor and the misappropriation or mishandling of monies received (see for example Villeneuve v Clark [1890] 35 Estates Gazette 458; Re: Gurden [1894] 2 Property Market Review 410 & 872; Estates Gazette vol 47 p 171 & vol 48 p183). Many certification complaints have concerned abuses of the scales of fees which bailiffs are entitled to charge. Helpful cases include:

  • In Re Longstaffe ex parte Robinson [1896] 49 Estates Gazette 60, a certificate was revoked because the bailiff had charged extortionate fees and had also left no inventory of the goods seized (in breach of his statutory duty) and had sold the goods at an undervalue to an associate.
  • In Duncombe v Hicks [1898] 42 Sol Jo 393, the bailiff lost his certificate for charging fees for work not actually undertaken by him.
  • In Mutter v Speering [1903] 119 LT 134, revocation was ordered because fees not authorised by the fee scale had been charged.

All these activities continue to be a cause of concern and it is clear that certification could still provide a speedy and efficacious remedy.

 

Moreover the potential scope of the complaints process appears to be broad. Certainly uncertificated bailiffs cannot undertake certificated work; also a certificated bailiff is liable for any trespass by his uncertificated assistant. It is further arguable to no uncertificated bailiff should be involved in any way with work for which a certificate is required – see Hogarth v Jennings [1892] 1 QB 907; Hawes v Watson [1892] 94 LT 181; Thomas v Millington [1892] 2 Property Market Review 472. In addition, the right to initiate a complaint lies not only with the debtor, but with the creditor, and, indeed, affected third parties, such as hire purchase lenders whose goods are wrongfully levied: see Perring & Co v Emerson [1903] 1 KB 1.

 

Leveraging the Bill’s potential

 

Clause 46 of the draft Bill states that new regulations will be made to replace the current Distress for Rent Rules. These will make provision (inter alia) for a complaints procedure, for the suspension or cancellation of certificates and for courts “to make information available in respect of certificates”. Hopefully, this will mean that the details of refusals or revocations will become publicly available. At present they are not and this is surely partly why the certification complaints procedure has been neglected. Nonetheless, much of the obscurity and disuse from which certification has suffered can be remedied now by practitioners pursuing suitable cases and publicising the outcomes in the professional press.

 

The procedure for initiating a complaint is very simple. A standard form exists (‘form 4’), although it would suffice to send a letter setting out the details of the parties, the debt and creditor involved, and describing the substance of the complaint. If you do not know the court which issued the certificate and to which the complaint should be addressed, you can ring Court Service Headquarters on 0207 210 1883 to check this; the information ought in any event to be supplied by the bailiffs’ company.

 

There has been a measure of doubt on the part of some county court judges as to the scope of the certification complaints system. This has been caused by government ‘tacking on’ a requirement for bailiffs levying local taxes and road traffic penalties to hold certificates without altering the basis upon which certificates are granted – that is, within the framework of the law of distress for rent. Some courts have been reluctant to entertain complaints that did not relate to the recovery of rent arrears. Department of Constitutional Affairs has, however, expressed the view that complaints may be made in three different situations:

  • when there has been unfit and improper behaviour by a bailiff levying distress for rent;
  • in respect of the activity of a certificated bailiff levying any other debt. This is on the basis that, in most cases, the procedures that have to be followed are broadly the same in all forms of seizure of goods, so that a serious error collecting (say) a fine will indicate a general lack of fitness and propriety; and
  • in respect of the certificates of those individuals who are managers and directors of bailiffs’ firms, on the basis that, if they are unable properly to control and train their staff, they are not fit to hold a certificate.

To conclude, the scope of certification complaints is broad. The process was used in the late 19th and early 20th centuries to deal with many of the sorts of abuses that still are encountered today, as well as generally to raise standards within the enforcement industry. There is no reason why it cannot perform the same function again in the 21st century.

 

 

 

The Necesary Form is to make a complaint is available here

 

To find out where your Bailiff had their Certificate issued ring HMCS Bailiff register 0207 210 0516

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