My Story - Simon -V- The (SH)Abbey ***WON***

[abroadgirl]

good luck si, thinking of you laughs i will pm what pmsl means laughs kia asked me the same im off to pm what it means as i dont know if i can put it here lol abg

[Simon7685]

Hi Everyone

 

Just one small piece of the jigsaw to add............

 

The judge specifically asked for to state what a fair charge would be and my reasons and justifications for it.

 

I know there is something somewhere about it along the lines of;

£5 which allows for a 100% high street mark up.

Does anyone know where it is????????????? and how it is worded???????

 

I can't find it in the stuff you sent abg.

 

Can anyone enlighten me?

Simon:)

[Simon7685]

Does anyone know where to find the above info???

[alex_the_lad]

Hi Simon!

 

Check out the following link: BBC NEWS | Business | Are penalty charges bank robbery? - is that what you were thinking of?

 

All the best,

 

A

[Simon7685]

Hi Alex

 

Thanks for that link, it was a good read but not quite what I was looking for. I know I have seen it on here in a more expanded legaly phrased way of what to put to justify that £5 would be a fair charge.

 

God knows where it was, I am just about drowning in all this paper now. and there is a million places it could be on here, oh well I'll carry on searching.......no rest for the wicked!!

 

Thanks again

Simon:)

[Simon7685]

Oh well I bet Mr Shabbey will be sat at his desk pressing the fax now button, to have my case struck out for not submitting my bundle on time.

 

There, there, never mind...........

[Simon7685]

Aren't those people at the court really nice!

 

I rang and asked if I could get a extra hour to finish things properly. Instead they said they will allow me until tomorrow to finish it, "no problem" said the clerk. We understand it isn't always easy for people self litigating against the banks, tomorrow will be fine.

 

A bit of luck for a change eh!

Si:)

[MattN]

Hi simon,

 

how are you gettin on? Glad the court gave you a bit of extra time to get things sorted Just quickly skimmed through the thread and noticed one question you had about "what is a fair charge". Again, I don't know if this is any help, but here is what I put for the same question - referencing the witness statement:

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

e) The claimants contention as to what a fair charge should have been.

* £2.50.

f) The claimants reasons and justification for the figure in 1 (e) above.

* Please see points 21-22 of the enclosed statement of evidence (page 7).

 

Points 21-22:

 

21. For their recent BBC2 documentary “The Money Programme”, the BBC appointed a commission of former senior banking industry figures and business academics to attempt to ascertain the actual costs to the UK banks of processing a customer’s breach of contract. They concluded that the absolute maximum conceivable cost that could be incurred by a direct debit refusal or overdraft excess is £2.50, and of a returned cheque £4.50. They did state however, that the actual cost is likely to be much less than this. The commission also estimated that the UK banks collectively derive as much as £4.5 billion in profit a year from their charging regimes.

 

22. It is submitted that the Defendants charges are applied by an automated and computer driven process. This process consists of a computer system ‘bouncing’ the direct debit, and sending out a computer generated letter. It is therefore impossible to envisage how the Defendant can incur costs of £20/£25/£30 by carrying out this completely automated process. Note that the letter received notifying of a charge is identical in every instance, and if multiple breaches occurred on the same day, a separate letter will be sent in each instance.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hope it helps Si, but I am NO authority on it, just going by what others have put!

 

matt

[Simon7685]

Hi Matt

 

Yes it does help. Its not the exact thing I wanted but does fit the bill, thanks very much.

 

I have to find this bit I know is on here somewhere......it's driving me bloody insane!!!!!! I know I won't settle all night unless I find it....argh!!

It said most of what you posted above but it also went on to say about them not being allowed to make a profit from the charges, though it was acceptable for them to double the charge to £5. Being representative of general high street mark ups of 100%..........obviously phrased a bit better than that. It also expanded on the automated system that they use by saying although the cost of equipment to produce the letters may be millions, the same one is used to notify everbody and therefore the proportionate cost would be substantialy less.

 

I know I've seen it somewhere on here!!!!.........honest!

 

Thanks again

Simon:)

[kia]

hiya simon kia here to rescue again ask queen T shell know or charley he did his bundle so hes the one to ask ;)ill bump this see is it helps pmsl means p..s myself laughing ok anything else i can help with just ask i could do with alibi for helping you arrgghh xxxkia

[pinkbabez]

HI SIMON,

BEEN INTO THE COURT TODAY JUST TO CHECK ON THE PROGRESS AFTER RECIEVING ABBEYS DEFENCE.

LADY ON THE DESK SAID THAT INSTUCTIONS HAVE BEEN SENT OUT TO ME FOR MY COURT BUNDLE I THINK, BUT SHE ALSO SAID THAT MOST ARE LIKELY TO BE STAYED

BUT YES WE CAN APPEAL THE STAY.

SHE ALSO SAID THE JUDGE IS LOOKING AT THE CASE'S INDIVIDUALLY.

[Simon7685]

Hi Pinkbabez

 

Lets hope they deal with all ours on here!!!!!!

 

DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW YOU PRINT THINGS IN THE STATUTES AND OTHER LIBRARIES???

 

Thanks

Simon:)

[kia]

Is it stupid suggestion to copy and paste probably is me and technology dont mix ;)sure someone will advise simonxxxkia

[chezt]

Is it stupid suggestion to copy and paste probably is me and technology dont mix ;)sure someone will advise simonxxxkia

Not stupid at all .... copy & paste into a word document is the answer

[kia]

Not stupid at all .... copy & paste into a word document is the answer

thought so ;)xxkia

[Simon7685]

Just a quick post to all................

 

Especialy my 'special' angels......

 

Finally finished all terted up in shiny lever arch file, with cover letter asking the judge to progress the case to judgement. Nothing to lose, explained my health situation and quoted financial hardship as grounds for the case continuing. So it is all down to him now. Abbeys copy is however not tarted up and not in lever arch file, sod em!

 

Sorry for not posting on other threads tonight, but I wanted to make it look good at least.

 

Am now going to go to bed for well earned sitting up (not allowed to sleep flat) sleep. Thank you all so much for all your help, support and putting up with me basically. You are all wonderfull.

 

Speak tomorrow

Simon:)

 

ps - its now 0220 no wonder i'm yawning!!!!

[deedee1310]

Simon.

 

Get to bed (I know I'm one to talk)! Sorry I've not been around much. As you know I have 4 claims on the go and it's starting to take its toll. Added to the fact that I am putting in long hours at work.

 

I wish you all the best and have been keeping an eye on you all along - it's just that you've had excellent help!

 

Anyway good night my lovely and best of luck tomorrow.

 

deedee x

[abroadgirl]

hi everyone i have enjoyed reading your posts i will answer them asap as i have alot to do at the moment and also want to let you know my update and what has happened

i emailed inga and i faxed london shabbey grabby

okay i emailed them again for a settlement....yes you guessed no reply for either reguarding the settlement...

teatime and last night bout 7pm ring ring omg its abbey i thought they were going ot offer me an offer no i dont think so.............

it was about my sttement for june after all this time woohoooo they arnt slow are they june statement in aug infact may/june and they have only just contacted me about this guess what it suppose to be comming ok i thought u are going to get it while you are on the phone you have reffered me to drbt management in edinburough about the on going charges since jan 9th this year for a cheque which was returned cause my disability went in the next day u returned it u charged me for this ok then the next was a payment for 23 pounds odd in which i have it in black nwhite it was refunded yet you have charged me every month up till you closing my account 26th june in which you are suppost to give me 30 days notice you didnt let me know and these charges have gone on since the 9th jan 07 and you have done this to me he said they shouldnt have continued ongoing like that i said yes i know you shouldnt but you have done so will you contact the debt management and cancel this on going charges which is over 300 pounds i am sorry i carnt do this you will have to do it me i said i think you should do it after all it is abbey that has refered me to this company i am sorry madame i cannot do this ok i said i will tell them when they phone me as they do so can you make a note of this on my file on your computor so that if they cintact you they will have it there infront of them and while you are on the phone i have recived a letter from you and says about an open offer i havent been sent an offer or nothing i have faxed your london office and inga solicitor for shabbey and i have had no reply perhaps you can put that down and that i am waiting for an offer etc that was my convo with him...........i will now put in the letter i have recived from grabby shabbey in my next post

hugs

abg.xx

[abroadgirl]

Dear Madam,

Your claim in relation to unauthorised bank charges is currently being litigated in the county court. Althought we belive the charges are fair and unlawful since you have filed your claim in court abbey along with other six other banks and building soiciety has become involed in legal proceedings with the oft in relation to unautherised overdraft bank charges. We belive this will be resolved the issues reguarding the fairness and legalalty of your unautheried bank charges.

Pending the outcome of the test case we are asking the county courts to stay all claims relating to unartherised overdraft bank charges. A stay means that the case be put on hold.If your claim has not yet already been stayed then, we have a written or will shortly be writing to the county court seeking a stay of your legal claim as a result your case is likely to be put on hold untill the outcome of the test case is known.

\given the court case we have asked the fsa to suspend the normal timetable for dealing with bank charges complaints and the fsa has agreed to this request subject to conditions that protect complaints rights.

We have also asked the fos not to proceed with any other case they are hearing untill the test case be resolved. FOS has indecated that as a general propostion it will indeed not proceed with cases which rely on the legal issues being considered in the test case.

Exactly what will happen next will depend on the courts we do not know how long the test case will take we have promised to proceed as quickly as possible but inevitably given the importance of the issues being considered this may take many months to resolve. We will keep you updated appropraitly in respect of the proceedings with the OFT. You can also check the lastest posion on our website at Abbey

in the intrim please retain your bank records as this will make it easier for you to support your legal claim on resolution of the test case we can assure you that we have kept a record of your legal claim. part 2 cont

[abroadgirl]

last page read.......................

We may have written to you recently to make you a goodwill offer in full and final settlement of your legal claim provided that you have not rejected that offer the goodwill will offer the banks has made to you still stands and will be honoured.

If you wish to take up this offer the bank will take this acceptance as full and final settlement of your legal claim to acept this offer you must contact the within 2 working months of the date of this letter if you accept the offer as a fulland final settlement it is highly unlikely you will be awarded a futher sum at a later stage even if the test case established you were otherwise entitled to a larger amount. However this does not preclude you from asking for repayment of any future charges if the court findsw they are unlawful.

please contact us if u are not sure wether you have an open offer or not

after the test case is finished once the legal proceedings between OFT and that the banks have finished we will resolve your legal claim as quickly as possible applying the principles established in the test case. which may generate a larger or smaller figure when compared with any currant offer we may have made.

The FSA requires us to ensure that your legal claim will not be affected by the stay ot your court proceedings.

end..........................................................................................

[abroadgirl]

well i dont know if i have done right but i have just faxed the court with this

Claim Number:XXXXXXX

 

In the XXXXXXXX County Court

 

Between:

 

 

 

[YOU]

Claimant

 

 

 

-and-

 

 

 

 

XXXXXXX BANK PLC

Defendant

 

 

 

I strongly object to the proposed order of a stay in respect of the claim detailed above upon the following grounds;

 

Human rights

 

It would infringe my rights under the European Convention on Human Rights directly and as enacted in the Human Rights Act 1998. Article 6 of the Convention provides that;

 

“1. In the determination of his civil rights… everyone is entitled to a fair and public hearing within a reasonable time.”

 

It is submitted that the ordering of a stay as proposed is not reasonable. The 8 banks involved in the High Court test case have recently published identical statements on their websites informing customers that they expect the test case to last for over a year. Moreover, the nature and gravity of the case is such that any judgment is highly likely to be appealed to the Court of Appeal and possibly even then appealed further to the House of Lords. It is entirely conceivable that a final resolution may not be reached for 2 – 3 years or perhaps even longer. It is thus submitted that the period of any proposed stay cannot be accurately predicted and would therefore in effect be indeterminate, which is contrary to the right of entitlement to a fair hearing within a reasonable time as provided for by Article 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998.

 

The Overriding Objective

 

The Overriding Objective requires that my case is allowed to proceed speedily so that a just settlement may be obtained by the parties to this case. Dealing with cases justly includes ensuring that this case is dealt with expeditiously and fairly and in a way that is proportionate to the amount of money involved. It is submitted that the imposition of an indeterminate stay in a small claims track case involving a reletively small sum, at such an advanced stage in proceedings, is not just, nor is it expeditious, nor is it fair on a claimant who has outlaid sums by way of court fees in pursuit of a legitimate right to seek a remedy.

 

Balance of convenience

 

The sum claimed is insignificant to the bank but it is highly significant to me. Furthermore, although a stay prevents me from recovering my money, the defendant bank is not prevented from levying its charges or interest on debt comprised of those charges so the order of the court has the effect of favouring a powerful and well-resourced institution and does not place any restriction on their continued application of charges which I say are unlawful. Further, many banks are now routinely closing the accounts of their customers who commence claims against them. This amounts to a sanction for seeking a ruling from the justice system and as such is a basic denial of citizenship. I will remain at risk of such action despite the fact that my remedy has been placed on an indeterminate hold.

 

Additionally, the defendant remains at liberty to enter my name on the default register which it and other banks routinely do in respect of unlawful penalties which are unpaid by their customers. The banks have direct and privileged access to this register. They have no need to obtain a County Court judgment before they may enter a default on the register. This default remains on the register for 6 years and causes enormous damage to reputations. Were my name to be entered on the default register I would find it impossible to get credit or a mortgage and I would have to pay higher fees for any credit which I did manage to obtain. The banks would also remain at liberty to bring legal proceedings against me for the recovery of any debt which mostly or entirely consists of penalty charges, penalty charges which are contended to be unlawful, but which consumers would be helpless to challenge in the event that stays are imposed on any claim where a customer is seeking to dispute the lawfulness of them.

 

It is submitted that a stay may potentially mean great difficulty for me and yet be insignificant for the defendant bank. In fact a stay is supportive of the banks litigation strategy which is to frustrate justice by repeatedly taking the claimant to the door of the court and then to settle the claim.

 

The Status Quo

 

The stay does not maintain the status quo. As submitted above, a stay favours the bank by preventing the claimant’s pursuit of its legitimate remedy without placing any restriction upon the banks activities which I submit are unlawful and/or retaliatory.

 

Furthermore, as submitted above the present case concerns a relatively small sum and is at a late stage in proceedings, and therefore I submit that to impose an indeterminate stay is unnecessary, inappropriate, not in the interests of justice and further, is detrimental to my rights in a way which is unfair and inequitable.

 

In the alternative

 

In view of the preceding paragraphs, if the court accedes to the defendant’s application for a stay notwithstanding these objections, I respectfully request that the court issues the following injunctions:

• That the defendant bank is prevented from applying further penalty charges to my account until the final settlement of the matter.
  
• That the defendant is prevented from applying interest charges to any outstanding amounts which are comprised of penalties until the settlement of the matter.
  
• That the defendant is prevented from closing my account.
  
• That the defendant is prevented from making any entry on its own systems or from communicating any similar information to any third party about any matter insofar as it relates to penalty charges until the final settlement of the matter.
  
• That the defendant removes any derogatory entry on its own records insofar as it relates to penalty charges. (The Court has the power to do this under the Data Protection Act 1998 )
  
• That the defendant arranges the removal of entries from the records of any third parties to whom it has previously communicated information insofar as it relates to penalty charges. (The Court has the power to do this under the Data protection Act 1998.)
  
• That these injunctions remain in place until the settlement of my claim.
  
• That should my claim proceed to a hearing that a decision should be made at the hearing as to whether these injunctions should be made permanent.
  
• That if the matter should not proceed to a hearing because the defendant decides to settle outside court, that these injunctions should become permanent.

I, the Claimant, believe all facts stated to be true.

 

Signed:

Dated:

 

 

.

[abroadgirl]

sssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh

im creeping everyone has gone asleep

ssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

our si was up late

ssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

sweet dreams everyone

 

hugs

abg

xx

[kia]

ahhh i know bless what with all that copy and pasting and spreadys hes exhausted sleep simon for the fight aint over yet ;)take it you managed the copy and paste then and i know how diffucult the court bundle was i never had to do it so well done you :Dcatch u later xxkia

[abroadgirl]

I WANT TO GIVE UP

I FEEL LIKE NOT CARRING ON WITH SHABBEY

 

i have had enough

hugs

[kia]

what roxie dont you blo..y dare i wont let you well have none of that defeatist attitiude oh simons thread hey simon wherever you are sweetie hope you r not in the hossie again now then abg what am i gonna do with you whats up then why are you feeling like this what has happened now have they been in touch the grabby or is it just life in general cos i wont let u do this simon wont imagine how upset hell be when he reads this as i was and with a hangover too ouucchh so snap out of it :)cos we all care about u all us fellow scabby hunters and talk to me ok xxxxkia