Salesman V Abbey

[salesman]

Hi everyone, I stumbled across you guys the other day, without being rude I didnt know you existed. I thought I would let you know where I am with my claim against the charges that I am currently doing........any help or advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated as I felt so confident until I looked at some of you others threads and realised that this is almost a full time job!!

Basically I wrote to Abbey HQ for my Discloser Request on April **th and sent the £10 cheque with it.

Abbey's Pam Speed wrote back on May **th with a copy of the charges going back to Jan 04 on there spreadsheet, saying the rest would follow as soon as possible. Then a few days later a copy of two statements from September and October of 2006 and randomly a letter/flyer telling me that if i use my card I could be entered for a prize draw!!!!!

I replied back to Pam Speed on May **th explaining I now thoght these charges were contary to the Unfair Terms in the Consumer Credit Contracts Regulations 1999, that I had requested by statements under the DPA but i had not recieved the full information buit I was going to use the information given on a pro rata basis to give me my claim plus my £10 DPA fee plus charges now levied against me for exceeding my overdraft, and gave them a further fourteen days to return the monies.

Unbelievably I got a reply dated the *rd June, a sunday!!!, from Andrew Nanson in a different department at Milton Keynes this time saying they were looking into my complaint!

I responded on the *th June that they had failed to adhere to the DPA, that they failed to dispute the amount and that they had failed to adhere to the Banking Codes Standards Board re a complaint would be dealt with within 40 days of an original request. I also reminded them as to the date that the 14 days were up!

Then I got a letter from Allen Betts, Head of Unsecured Debt Management, also in Milton Keynes, telling me to make sure there is enough money paid into the account to clear the unauthorised overdraft.

I have just replied bak telling him that he is the fourth person I have dealt with and refered him to his own collegues and to send me a cheque for the balance owed between my claim and the overdraft. Nothing if not fair I thought!!!!

I am now in the process of trying to put this on to Form NP1 and send it to my local County Court but am unsure of how to proceed with both the claim (not having received all the statements) and how to complete the form, as what I was going to write is different to the example in your library.

Any comments would be greatfully recieved.

[path_finder]

I would suggest spending some time reading the FAQs, this will give you an idea of the correct process to follow.

You do not say if you have sent a prelim letter or LBA, which you need to do before filing in court, but there is a section in the library explaining how to fill in the N1.

[salesman]

Hi Path finder,

I have sent my own/BBC web site http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6170209.stm versions of both the prelim and LBA letters, which before reading some of the ones on here I thought were great!!! However the fundementals are still the same as is the tone and basic content.

As things stand at the moment I gave them until **th June to comply or face legal proceedings, hence I'm at the point of completeing the form N1.

However I have not mentioned interest throughout the proceedings as i didnt feel i could prove the interest on what is a estimated amount of claim. Should I go back and do that? Would this mean starting the whole process again? Questions questions I have so many questions all of a sudden!!!!

Also I have been told that I dont complete the Statement of Truth section on the N1 form until I appear in court? Is that correct?

[ohoh4312]

Hi there

 

Re the interest, do you mean Contractual Interest or statutory 8%?

 

If it's the latter, then there is no problem; this can ONLY be claimed at the N1 stage, and should not be asked for in your Prelim or LBA.

There is a spreadsheet on here to calculate the 8%:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/182-6-interest-calculation-spreadsheets.html

 

However, on an estimated claim this is tricky because you need to know the actual date of the charge in order to perform the calculation.

 

If it is Contractual Interest, ie the interest they charge you for going o/d, then this has to be asked for in your Prelim and LBA, and cannot be added to the Court claim if you have not done so. (You have to start the process over with them in order to claim this.)

 

Also, because they have failed to provide you with the information within the statutory 40 days, you should have a look at the non-compliance letters here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/6986-data-protection-act-non.html

 

As far as the Statement of Truth goes, I believe you DO have to complete this, have a look here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/681-4-particulars-claim-n1.html

 

Hope this helps

 

Jo xx

[ohoh4312]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/10325-moneyclaim-interest-calc-estimated.html

 

Also, have a look at this thread - there is a reply from a Mod for calculating interest on an extimated claim which may help.

 

Jo xx

[salesman]

I think that my letter below covered the non compliance??

 

Due to recent media coverage on bank charges I now believe that you, Abbeyhave been charging me charges that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of terms, which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation. I believe that your charges are disproportionately high and therefore they are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999. In addition I believe that your charges are a Penalty. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79 along with Murray v. Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963. It was held that a contractual party can only recover damages for an actual loss or liquidated losses. It is clear that your charges do not reflect any actual and or real loss.

I requested my bank statements for the last sixyears under the Data Protection Act Disclosure Request on the **th April, 2007. I refer to your reply dated **th May, 2007 which actually contained the breakdown of charges both applied and refunded from this account during the period January 2004 and March 2006 inclusive, the total charges deducted during this period come to a total of £****.**p. You have however worded your letter to look like all charges from January 2004 to date where included, which they were not. Additionally you stated “before January 2004 details of charges for this period will follow as soon as possible” however the only other information that has been sent to me are statement nos. *** and *** which refer to **nd August, 2006 through until **nd October, 2006. This despite acknowledging my paid £10 fee under the Data Protection Act, which was banked on **th May, 2007 and not carrying out the requested information let alone complying with the forty day time period.

Therefore I have estimated that over the last six years the total amount of charges you have applied to my account is £****.**p plus as stated in my letter dated **th April the £10 DPA fee. Further I shall also be seeking the additional charges currently being applied to my account after I started pursuing the last six years worth of charges in April of this year, which total £**.** in May 2007 and £**.** during May of this year. Consequently I require you to refund me a total of £****.**p, representing the total, unlawful amount charged during the last 6 years plus additional charges applied during this process. If you disagree with this amount please supply me a copy of all the charges applied to my account dating back six years within the next seven days.

I hereby give you fourteen days to refund all the charges dating back six years on to my account, plus provide evidence that this is the total amount. For the avoidance of doubt, if this is not done within fourteen days, I will commence legal proceedings without further warning. This action will inevitably involve you paying additional costs.

I also hereby request a detailed report of which clause in your terms and conditions each charge has been applied against.

and this covers my LBA????

 

I acknowledge your letter of *rd June, 2007 in which you enclose a complaints leaflet. I do not feel it necessary to re-quote my letter dated **th May, 2007 as I am sure it will be on your records. I would however comment as follows;

1. You are the third department that I have dealt with and as yet I have not received the full information that I requested originally on the **th April, 2007 a period of 54 days or seven weeks five days ago.

2. Your companies’ failure to adhere to the request under the Data Protection Act Disclosure Request is reportable to the Information Commissioner’s Office and makes you further liable to court action.

3. That I gave you seven days to disagree with the amount to be refunded in my letter dated **th May, 2007. This has not been disputed within the allocated time and therefore that you agree to the amount to be refunded. You state in your reply dated *rd June, 2007 that “I do hope to find a solution that you are happy with”. This, of course, will be a settlement of the full sum stated in my letter **th May, 2007.

4. That within your own leaflet on complaints you state

“We promise to

send you our final response within eight weeks of your original complaint to us, or write to you explaining why we haven’t completed our investigations and when we will have done so.”

I refer you to point one within this letter and the time frame so far. This then leaves you until the *th June, 2007 to avoid an investigation by the Banking Codes Standard Board for failure to comply with the complaints procedures enacted under Parliament in December 2001, and further investigation by the Financial Ombudsman Services for this same failure, both of which I feel apply to this case and thus will be instigated, if necessary.

5. Further, I gave you fourteen days, from **th May, 2007 to refund these monies or face legal proceedings. This still stands and thus gives you until **th June, 2007 to comply.

Hows it looking to you experts out there??

[salesman]

Just an update for those of you that have been reading.......form N1 completed!!!! Let battle commence in court

[ohoh4312]

Hi again

 

Watching with interest - filed my N1 last Friday, so hopefully we can compare notes!!

 

Best of Luck

 

Jo xx

 

p.s. re the Non-compliance, your letter was great. Sorry I didn't get round to replying sooner, but yes it covered the issue beautifully, at least to a complete non-expert like me!

[salesman]

Thank you for your support.

Just to rid my frustration factor I filled out a Complaint form for the FSO against Abbey this evening too!!!

My dander is raised!!!

Let us know how your going too

xx

[salesman]

An update.........Financial Ombudsman complaint sent!!!

 

N1 Form Completed and is to be handed in tomorrow

[salesman]

Court Documents are filed!!!!

If a moderator gets in touch I will pass on the relevant details

[salesman]

Ok been a while, so for an update...

 

ShAbbey have voided my overdraft and accused me of being unable to reach a settlement of the overdraft the cards and cheque book back and they have stopped all DD's and SO's, I wrote back and said you have effectively closed my account and asked for the balance of my claim v the overdraft to be sent to me!!!

 

My claim went in on the 6th and the 14 days were up on monday 23rd but they acknowledged my claim on the 18th I got notice from the court this morning.....naybe a new record for them to acknowledge a claim 12 days and not the normal 14!!!!

 

I await there defence!!! Now trying to save the AQ money before my holiday!!!!

 

Any help/comments on what to do next would be greatfully recieved.

[ICY]

Do you have all your statements yet, or are you still estimating?

[salesman]

Hi Icy,

No only there original 14 month breakdown of charges with I pro rata I used to estimate!

[ICY]

Have you tryed emailing Pam Speed ? [email protected]

[salesman]

For the statements? She wrote that she would forward them on!!! I sent a complaint to the Ombudsman but there still waititng to start an investigation but are busy dealing with all the other complaints!!!

[deedee1310]

Hi Salesman,

 

I was just checking in to see how you are getting on. Still no statements huh?

 

Have they exceeded the 40 day limit yet? If so, have you considered taking them to court to ensure their compliance? It might be worth considering.

 

The estimated charges that you have filed, does it cover the whole length of your banking history with them?

 

Anyway good luck with everything I'm a couple of weeks behind you. I issued my N1 on 13/7/07 it was deemed served on 20/7/07, so the count down begins.

 

deedee x

[salesman]

Hi Deedee

No they exceeded the 40 day limit back in May!!! I sent my complaint to the ombudsman, but thats in a massive queue!!

I used the 14 months worth of charges pro rata them to go back 6 years and sent the estimate back to them saying if they disagreed to let me know and if not I would consider it to be accurate and therefore the amount owed to me!!!

Your court must be busy cos I took my claim in on the 6th July and they deemed it served on the 8th!!! I expect they will acknowledge it and enter a standard defence on the last day!!!! but dont worry I havent read a single thread on here that they didnt not pay!!!

 

The only thing for me is that I have not heard a single thing from shAbbey maybe they dont want to negociate with me!!!

[salesman]

Wow I recieved a typically shAbbey offer.................£170!!!! yes 170 thats one hundred and seventy but check this bit out its for the charges they were going to apply to my account next month!!!!

Needless to say a strong worded letter is being written!!!

[salesman]

Ok letter of rejection done for the £170 offer I had yesterday.

Next question guys........

They sent me Notice of register to default!!!!!

Do I send the Notice to s.10 of the Data Protection Act???

Also do I mention that I have had a GOGW offer from another dept?

Do I mention that they should contact their legal dept???

All these questions!!!!!

HELP

[salesman]

Hi fellow litigants,

Can someone check this over for me please?

Feedback required

Thank you in advance

Allen Betts

Head of Unsecured Debt Management

Abbey House

P.O. Box 534

201 Grafton Gate East

Central Milton Keynes

MK9 1AN

25th July 2007

Notice pursuant to s.10 of The Data Protection Act 1998.

 

 

Re: account no.******

Account holder. Mr **********

 

Whereas I have been a customer of Abbey for over 15 years and whereas I consented in my contract with you to the disclosure by you of certain data to third parties, at no time did I consent and neither was it within the contemplation of the parties to the contract that I did consent to the processing by you of that data in any manner which would be unfair or inaccurate or which in any way would breach The Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Therefore Take Notice that I require that you cease from processing within 7 days of the receipt by you of this notice or else that you do not begin to process any personal data of which I am the subject insofar as that processing involves the communication or passing of personal data of which I am the subject to any third party and insofar as the said data relates wholly or in part to the implementation by you of charges which have been applied to my account in respect of defaults or contractual breaches and where the said charges which have been levied at a rate which is in excess of the administrative costs incurred by you as a consequence of the said defaults or breaches contrary to The Common Law.

 

This Notice is given on the grounds that the processing or continued processing by you of the said data will be likely to affect my credit rating and my reputation and cause substantial damage and/or substantial distress to me and my family members in addition to that which may already have been caused and that as the processing of the said data in the way referred to in this notice would violate the fourth, first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998 to do so would be unwarranted.

Further I would draw your attention to my previous correspondence to you where asked you to confirm that you indeed have my multi-function card and cheque book, you have still not done so. Additionally you have not responded to my request as to when I would receive payment from you.

Also I am unsure whether you are aware from other departments within your organisation that I commenced legal action against Abbey for the full amount and costs on **th July, 2007. May I also point out that another department has already sought to offer a gesture of goodwill payment in settlement, this I have rejected as it was not for the full amount. I would ask that you now refer this matter to your legal department for further instruction.

I look forward to answers by return.

Yours truly,

[kia]

did no one give u feed back salesman how very rude well it looked ok to me did it work then did u get the missing ones then cos this was a while ago ill bump it for you see if that helps xxxkia

[deedee1310]

Hello Salesman.

 

Sorry too!

 

It looks fine to me too. I would also take a look at SurlyBonds letter Defaults - a proposed method for removal and the full template letter for reference (if you have not already done so).

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

deedee x

[kia]

ill bump it again see if he gets any more comments how are you dee dee now where u been love well have to liven this thread up again between us late night for u to eh !!!!xxkia

[deedee1310]

Hey Kia.

 

I'm good. How are you? Whoops I didn't realise it was that late/early - depends how you look at it!!!

 

I'm off for a picnic, so won't be around until later.

 

Yes Kia, we'll ty and liven up the thread without getting told off by the CAGbots. Hee hee

 

 

deedee x