Help with NCO Europe

[ManSpot77]

Hi there

 

I've had a debt which NCO Europe took on a few years ago, it's less than £2000 and I've been making payments without fail on a regular basis. For the last eighteen months or so they have failed to send me any statements, meaning I have no idea what my balance is and how much is left to pay. In the meantime I have been getting several phone calls a week with messages left on the phone (I haven't been around to receive them). Instead of calling them back I have written to them asking that they restrict all future correspondence to letter only as well as an update on my account.

 

They have in the past regularly harrassed me on the phone to increase my payments despite that fact I only work a few months a year and then only a few hours a week (I am a student and part-time university lecturer) and I am tired of explaining to them that I cannot afford an increase. I am already paying more than I can afford which is a strain on my finances. Today they got me on the telephone. When I asked why they were ignoring my letters, I was told that they hadn't received them. When I pointed out (with a little irritation) that I sent the last letter with my regular payment and the cheque had been cashed, meaning he was lying about not receiving the letter, he got angry and shouted down the phone that he would phone me every day to harass me. This made me so angry I almost threatened to go up there and personally find him so I could kick his head in but I restrained myself. I told him I would be contacting the OFT and he shouted that I could "contact whoever I liked". He had the cheek to act as though he was in the right and said he would now terminate the conversation, upon which I hung up before he could.

 

The question is; how can I get these scumbags to give me regular updates on my account and stop telephoning me? I don't dispute the debt and I *want* to pay it back in full but they're not behaving like reasonable human beings. I have decided not to send them any more payments until they start sending me regular balance updates *and* stop telephoning me; if they take it to court do I have a reasonable chance of any sympathy given the situation? Am I going to have to change my phone number to stop them from calling?

 

I would appreciate any advice since this is really getting me down; sorry if these people have been discussed before but I'm not in the right frame of mind to calmly read through other posts.

 

Many thanks in advance

ManSpot77

[Curlyben]

First off, I'm sorry to say you have one of the most ignorant DCA's around.

 

They ride rough shod over legal process and procedure, but now's the time to fight back.

 

Time has come to stand up to these bullies and take the fight to them

 

Now then you need to keep ALL the letters they send you AND a log of all the calls they make, this will be need by Trading Standards later on.

 

Now then you need to CCA them to make them PROVE that they do indeed own the debt and you are paying the correct people.

 

The CCA request asks for a copy of certain documents;

Signed Excuted credit agrement

Statements of account

Deed of assignment (some others disagree on this but never hurts to ask)

 

Now there is a small fee for this of £1, best to send a cheque then it can be traced.

 

Now there's a couple of important deadlines for this.

1/ 12+2 WORKING days. 2 days for delivery/processing and then 1 to comply. If after this time the requested documents don't arrive then it is unenforceable and you can stop payments. BUT if they do find it and it's correct you must start paying again.

 

2/ A further calander month. If after this time they fail to comply they have commited a criminal offence and the debt is completely unenforceable even in court.

 

Now the reason for keep logs is apparent.

Once you stop payment you WILL be hit with a large amount of calls 5+ a day. LOG them.

Once they pass the additional month, thens the time to call trading standards and tell NCO exactly what you have done.

 

I'm having a similar problem with them (unlawful charges on B'card) and I ended up changing my phone number for some quiet.

TS are now working with me on these "people"

 

Hope this helps.

 

Forgot to mention; Send the CCA by recorded delivery so you can track it.

[ManSpot77]

Thank you so much for the prompt response Curlyben - it's given me new hope along with the knowledge that I'm not alone!

 

I will definitely be taking your advice. Hope we can both get them off our backs for good!

 

Cheers

ManSpot77

[Monty2007]

Hi ManSpot

 

I have been dealing with these scumbags for the last 18 months, they drove me crazy since after a few payments they said that I had not paid and they would refer my debt back to Amex for legal action. I had to get my bank to undertake a search and tracking of the payment which NCO finally acknowledged.

 

I had not had a statement from Amex since my default and the account being tranferred to NCO Europe (though they call themselves RMAI Resolve or Ragain depending on the day of the week). I then requested all my information from Amex under the Data Protection Act and I was surprised to find that they had prepared statments on their system that were up to date, they had however increased the interest charges that I have now challenged and brought the account into dispute. I have (and suggest you) write to whoever you had the original debt with and state:

 

You are required under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to send me monthly statements for the above two accounts such that I can monitor the payments and outstanding balances. These statements are clearly being prepared by American Express as evidenced by their supply to me by you Amex Data Protection Coordinator.

 

I must admit that they have stopped calling since I sent a letter requesting this to both NCO and Amex, they seem to share correspondence that I send to each. The information disclosure that I received from NCO is in code, such as "x" said to PER1 blah, blah...

 

Hope this is useful

 

Monty

[ManSpot77]

Thanks Monty, I'll keep that in mind. My debt is with the Student Loans company, I made the mistake of not keeping them informed of my student status which I guess prompted them to pass the debt to NCO rather than keep up my annual deferrals. One thing I did notice however; when I was getting regular payslips from NCO the balance did not have interest added; however I used to also get regular updates from the Student Loans company (though not for a long time now) and they *were* adding interest. They did seem to be deducting my monthly payments though, which would suggest they are working together and my CCA request may well be answered... is it fair for them to still be adding interest if the debt was defaulted?

 

Which leads me to a question for Curlyben: your point number 2, when you say "if they have not complied after an additional calendar month", do you mean comply with the CCA request or comply with my request for regular updates and stop calling? If the latter, does this mean if they still don't send me regular balance updates/continue to harass by 'phone I can stop paying? Just wanted to clarify, since I guess from Point 1 if they don't satisfy my CCA request within 17 working days or so I can stop paying, making point 2 moot? Sorry for being a little confused...

 

Thanks again

ManSpot77

[Curlyben]

CCA deadlines are slightly confuseing, took me ages to get my head around them. CCA compliance is a legal requirement.

 

So first is 12+2 Working days then, second, is a futher month on top.

So about 50 days total.

 

2/ is when they are in serious trouble legally, as non-compliance at this stage is a criminal offence, punishable with 6 months in prison and/or £2,500 fine.

 

Unfortunatly you can't just stop payment because they ignore your stop calling/statements requests.

[ManSpot77]

I see, I understand now. Thanks for the clarification.

 

So if they do provide the documents and I need to continue payments, can I still complain to the OFT about their failure to provide regular balance sheets and regular harassment by phone despite a request to maintain contact by letter only? I guess I would need to keep details of these over a period of time as you stated originally... of course I'm also a little concerned that interest is being added without my knowledge!

 

Thanks again for all your advice

ManSpot77

[Curlyben]

Complain to TS first.

[rory32]

As part of your CCA request you can ask for a statement of account (which is free). A statement of account under a CCA request is not quite the same as the monthly statements you should have received when you originally took out the debt.

 

To clarify the point, here is what a statement of account under the CCA must contain:

 

 

together with a statement

signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it

is practicable for him to refer,--

Consumer Credit Act 1974 (c.39)

(a) the state of the account,

(b) the amount, if any currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the

creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not

draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement

by the debtor to the creditor.

(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the

amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)©, he shall be taken to comply with that

paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the

regulated agreement, they would fail to be ascertained.

[ManSpot77]

Many thanks Rory and Curlyben.MS

[Curlyben]

No worries ManSpot.

 

Psst click our scales if we have helped

[ManSpot77]

Hey people

 

Just wrote the letter incorporating all your advice. Here's the main text of it if you're interested. I'll be sending it by registered post first thing this morning!

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

Following your telephone call dated as above by an arrogant, offensive and threatening agent, despite repeated requests to cease harassment via telephone calls and following your failure to send me regular udpates on my balance despite my regular and unfailing payments, in addition to blatant and shameless deception on your part by way of denial of receipt of a letter I know you did receive as a fact, I am writing to formally make a CCA (Consumer Credit Act) request consisting of proof that you indeed own the debt I have been paying you with the reference number given above. I expect you to send me copies of the following:

 

1. A signed executed credit agreement

   
   

2. A full statement of account

   
   

3. A deed of assignment of the debt

   
   

 

The statement of the account should take the form of a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable to refer,--Consumer Credit Act 1974 (c.39)

 

 

(a) the state of the account,

(b) the amount currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and dates of payments made

 

 

 

 

I enclose a cheque for the required fee of £1 for you to provide this information. In addition, I have sent this letter by registered post so you cannot continue to falsely claim non-receipt. Further, I would also remind you, as a response to your agent's threat to harass me by telephone every day and your constant requests for an increase in payment despite my repeatedly stated inability to do so, as well as your deliberate ignoring of my requests to restrict communication to letters only, the Administration of Justice Act 1970 Section 40; Punishment for unlawful harassment of debtors.

 

(1) A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract he harasses the other with demands for payment which, in respect of their frequency, or the manner or occasion of making any such demand, or of any threat or publicity by which any demand is accompanied, are calculated to subject him or members of his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation; falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it; falsely represents himself to be authorized in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment; or utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character, or purporting to have some official character which he know it has not. (2) A person may be guilty of an offence by virtue of sub-section (1) (a) above if he concerts with others in the taking of such actions as is described in that paragraph, notwithstanding that his own course of conduct does not by itself amount to harassment.”

 

Sincerely...

 

Thanks for the help

 

M.S.

[rory32]

Just put at the top of it I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY.

[ManSpot77]

Thanks Rory, but wouldn't the fact that I've been making regular payments for a few years make that pointless? Or is it a specific statement that I am as yet unsure whether *they specifically* should be receiving the payments?

 

M.S.

[rory32]

You may have previously made payments and thus acknowledged the debt. However, part of disputing the debt is no longer choosing to acknowledge it until they can prove that the debt is yours. You can do this at any time, the fact that you previously acknowledged it doesn't matter.

 

Once they have received your request they have 12 working days to comply with your request. On the 13th working day they default on suppying it. Once the account is in default they can not lawfully pursue for the debt until they produce a true copy of the agreement.

 

You can at this point also legally withhold all payment on the account until a copy of the agreement is produce.

[ManSpot77]

Great stuff, thanks Rory!

 

M.S.

[Ginger66]

Hi all,iv'e hd the same problems with RMA.First of all i kept getting harrasing calls calls even though i was making regular payments every month.I then found out that every month 30% of what i was paying was being added to my account without my knowledge.I only found out that this was happening after i received statements from the credit card company.RMA then denied that they own the account and knew nothing about interest being added.

To cut a long story short,they did not send statement of my account or CCA so i have just hit them with the following letter after advice from others on here.Must admit wasn't sure but what the heck.They have tried contacting me by phone but i have ignored.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

I refer to my letter dated xxxxxx which was delivered via Recorded Delivery to your offices on xxxxxx.

 

You have failed to acknowledge this request in any way, whether by confirmation of receipt of the letter or by supplying the requested documents. The documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account.

 

In my letter of the xxxxxx I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under Section 77(1) and Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and a true signed copy of the Deed of Assignment. In addition a full statement of my account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account from the time RMA purchased this account, along with any other documents mentioned in the credit agreement.

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, your company commits an offence. These time limits expired on xxxxxx and xxxxxx respectively.

 

As you are no doubt aware, Section 78(6) states:

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore on xxxxxx this account became unenforceable at law and no further payment will be made by myself to the account, as you have failed to comply with a request for a true signed copy of the said agreement, and other relevant documents mentioned in it, and failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide a true copy of the Deed of Assignment, under the relevant sections of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Further, I do not acknowledge any debt to RMA.

 

I require the following action from RMA :

 

1. All payments made to date to RMA for this account should be refunded in full, including interest at the rate of 8% per annum.

 

2. Removal of all defaults entered by RMA. Note this is to be a complete deletion and not merely an amendment.

3. I look forward to compensation under Section 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to be offered for the processing of my data in the manner it has been done over the past number of years.

 

4. After a full refund of all payments with interest and compensation are received by me, you will be required under Section 10 and Section 12 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease and desist all manual and automatic processing of my data within your company and any other company within your group.

 

If you do not respond positively to my request, court action may be taken under Section 14 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to force RMA or any other company within the group to comply with the refund of all monies paid, removal of all defaults maintained and compensation for damage and distress as a result of unlawful data processing. I may also pass the matter to the relevant enforcement authorities including, but not limited to, the OFT, the Information Commissioners Office, Trading Standards, the CSA, the FOS and my local MP.

 

I look forward to your reply within 14 days to resolve the matter amicably.

Yours faithfully,

 

Any advice from anyone.....will keep you updated

[krakkatau]

hi guys,

 

paypal have just incurred a chargeback for an item I sold. The item was a classic car which i sold on ebay. the buyer claimed misdescription as it didn't pass its MOT in the UK. I am a UK citizen, but live in Thailand. This is where I shipped the vehicle from. I'm flabbergasted that the credit card company authorised this given the circumstances, but that's another story. The shipping costs amounted to over 1,200 pounds and as the vehicle is now deregistered in Thailand, it can't be returned.

 

As none of these circumstances were considered by paypal, or the credit card company, and their was never any suggestion that the vehicle would pass a UK MOT in the ebay description, they will need to take me to court for the money they lost from the chargeback.

 

I apologise for my ignorance, but this is all completely new to me. Could anyone be a saviour and explain what I need to do when the debt collectors begin to contact me via, presumably my mum in the UK..

e.g. requesting a CCA agreement. Would this be relevant to my case?

 

Any handy help, hints or tips would be gratefully received in advance as I believe I'm in for a bumpy ride..

 

Thanks.....

[ManSpot77]

Hi Ginger

 

Can you really demand a refund for payments already made if they don't provide the documents for the two time periods? I suppose if their demands for payment were interpreted as fraudulent... perhaps someone can clarify?

 

M.S.

[rory32]

Can you really demand a refund for payments already made if they don't provide the documents for the two time periods?

Not really. A judge would view the payments as voluntary and as such would not refund them.

[Ginger66]

All,sent that letter after some advice from on here from others.Know i am chancing my luck but so far RMA have not been able to prove that legally that they are entitled to collect my debt.

 

To be honest if they offer to wipe the outstanding debt of £2500 i would be more than happy.Just got fed up after i found that they were adding interest without my knowledge,also they have still not provided a statement of my account after 10 weeks.This even though i was paying every month without fail.

 

Anyone with advice as to where to take it from here.

 

Cheers

[ManSpot77]

Hi

 

I guess that if they don't send you the documents within six weeks you don't pay the debt. If they continue to hassle you than keep records of their letters/phone calls and contact your local Trading Standards. At least this is what I gather from the helpful advice here. I'm in the same situation myself so am waiting to see if they provide the relevant documents.

 

M.S.

[Curlyben]

Basically YEP, you got it.

[ManSpot77]

Hi Curlyben

 

I gather you've gone past the six week period so you're currently dealing with the harassment with Trading Standards - please do let us know how you get on with that so I know what to expect!

 

Many thanks

M.S.

[Curlyben]

Well so far so good.

 

The main problem I have is that the "debt" that RMA/NCO are chasing is completely charges and they have been told this !!!

Even so the normal CCA route still applies.