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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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HSBC T&Cs HERE


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Right....this is great!

 

I am going to print off all the T&C's from when i am claiming my charges and am i right to highlight all area's saying that the charges are to cover admin costs??

 

Also........how do i print from photo bucket? I have just tried at work and it didnt let me!

 

Thanks again for all this!!!

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kell,

 

you could copy the pages you want into word and print from there. you can save it then and at least that way you have a copy for you records. the file will be enormous though.

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You can always use the PDF files which are linked in post #1. Save them to your computer, then open them with adobe reader (this is available for free download on the web if you don'tr already have it) and print them out. Since I've added PDFs, the images are a bit redundant really. It's alot less fiddly to print out one file per document rather than one image per page.

 

If you do wnat to use the images: if you can view them you should be able to print them - by right-clicking on them and selecting 'print', for example. How are you viewing them? What happens when you try to print them? It shouldn't be necessary to use Word, anyway.

 

Will the courts accept Word documents though?

 

It wouldn't look like a word document once it's printed out - just a printout of an image. If they will accept a photocopy, presumably they will accept a printout that looks like a photo or a scan. That's the beauty of the adversarial system: the courts can pretty much assume everything is as it seems unless it is challenged by the other side - which the T&Cs won't be.

 

(Mind you, Judge Poole in the infamous Lloyd's case apparently forgot he was in a common law jurisdiction. He seems to have had a rush of blood to the head, and started behaving like some sort of inquisitor. No-one expected that!)

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Oh yes I didn't realise you posted links to pdf's at the beginning of this thread. that would be a lot easier. :D

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(Mind you, Judge Poole in the infamous Lloyd's case apparently forgot he was in a common law jurisdiction. He seems to have had a rush of blood to the head, and started behaving like some sort of inquisitor. No-one expected that!)

 

'NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION' LOL

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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this might sound a little stupid but how can i use the t&c's in my case. Are they just to show the charges are not explained indetail when you sign up or to show that they are charged because i have breached the t&c's?

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Not at all stupid - exactly the question you should be asking. You certainly want to show that the charges are made because you have breached the t&c's. Without showing that, you probably wouldn't be able to argue that they are penalties.

 

Some ideas here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/95312-hsbc-t-cs-here.html#post883209, but read the T&Cs yourself, and make sure you can identify the relevant bits from each version that applies to your claim.

 

Some people are only including the relevant pages from T&Cs in their bundles. You could highlight the relevant clauses, and you certainly want to have a document quoting the text of those clauses with your account of what each clause shows. Make sure you are clear on the issues involved and how each relates to the overall argument. You should be able to explain your overall case, referring to your Particulars of Claim, and identify the evidence and legal authorities (cases and Acts/regulations) supporting each point you make.

 

Then you will be the best position to decide what to include in your bundle and how to put it all together. Even though there is almost no chance that you actually will end up in court, you can expect to speed things up if you show that you know exactly what you are doing. Remember the bank will try and delay paying until (a) you give up, (b) a trial is about to start, or © it becomes clear to them that you are ready, willing and able to argue the case in court with a realistic prospect of success.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi everyone,

 

I need the HSBC T&Cs but having checked, I opened my account with them back in 1992 - the oldest I can see here go back to 1996. Does this matter? Can I use the 1996 ones or will I need to request them from HSBC (don't fancy my chances for a swift response!!).

 

Sorry if that is a stupid question and thanks in advance for your help.

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Hi everyone,

 

I need the HSBC T&Cs but having checked, I opened my account with them back in 1992 - the oldest I can see here go back to 1996. Does this matter? Can I use the 1996 ones or will I need to request them from HSBC (don't fancy my chances for a swift response!!).

 

Sorry if that is a stupid question and thanks in advance for your help.

 

Dont even bother asking HSBC, Just include the 1996 T & C's

 

CM

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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I won a claim for my charges back and was paid in full.

Can I claim again as the bank HSBC says I cant for 6 months.

Is this true?

 

Ive never heard such rubbish, would love to know where they dreamed that one up, so unless somebody knows different claim away..

Will ask crusher hes up to claim 99 with them LOL

 

CM

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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I won a claim for my charges back and was paid in full.

Can I claim again as the bank HSBC says I cant for 6 months.

Is this true?

 

 

Eastie, as i thought, its a load of tosh, heres crushers reply LOL :D

 

Quote

' yep, it's crap!

 

Even if they did introduce this policy, its not binding, and I would tell them where to stick the 6 months. And its not very sunny there.'

 

Well Crushers Certainly up for poet loriet this year ;)

 

So unless you signed the banks acceptance that you wouldnt claim again, Go ahead send them in....... go on tell me this aint becoming fun LOL

 

Celicaman

__________________

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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Celicaman,

I still have a £2000 overdraft facility with HSBC they charge me £24 a month interest as I hover around the OD £1500 mark plus a £25 overdraft facility or as they put on the statement notified charges.

Can I claim only the £25 overdraft facility back or can I claim some of the interest charges back as well?

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Celicaman,

I still have a £2000 overdraft facility with HSBC they charge me £24 a month interest as I hover around the OD £1500 mark plus a £25 overdraft facility or as they put on the statement notified charges.

Can I claim only the £25 overdraft facility back or can I claim some of the interest charges back as well?

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Celicaman,

I still have a £2000 overdraft facility with HSBC they charge me £24 a month interest as I hover around the OD £1500 mark plus a £25 overdraft facility or as they put on the statement notified charges.

Can I claim only the £25 overdraft facility back or can I claim some of the interest charges back as well?

 

The 'notified charges' is another cloaking of charging you because at some time over the month your balance went over the £2k, so instead of bouncing the item that did that they stuff you for £25 and tell you its for notifying you for asking for an informal overdraft !!!!!:evil: claim them back.

As for interest, you can claim interest back that was charged on the charges, IE for each £25 it accumulates interest against a charge that should not have been levied, so claim it back. If you use mindzias spreadsheet it tallys it up with the charges, but you need your statement to input info.

Basically at the time of each charge, you input the months interest & the balance of account at that time, and it does it for you

 

Celicaman

Templates Library

 

GE Capital Won

Capital 0ne Won

Northern rock Claim stayed working on negotiation

HSBC personal claim 1 ''WON''.

£1800 plus full stat interest plus costs.

Claim started 14/02/07 offer 3/07/07

 

Next:Coming soon to a thread near you! :)

HSBC personal Part 2 'return of the Celicaman'

HSBC business 1 ' my empire strikes back' N1 claim POC in progress after usual offensive offer from bank

HSBC business 2 'attack of the Celicaman'

HSBC business claim 3 'bank account menace'

HSBC business 4 'Revenge of the CAG Member' the final insult ....................... 'Maybe'

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  • 2 weeks later...

The extracts were supplied by DG, HSBCs in-house solicitors. You should probably use the 96 ones too as they are complete and may have been in effect when you opened your account. Save them all, and if/when you need to produce your court bundle, print them off and include them. Make sure you understand which bits are relevant. There's some advice on that in this thread.

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Hi stax,

 

I'm a bit confused - I joined HSBC in 2001.. which docs from your list should I include in my bundle (sorry I dont have any T&S I could send you - I foolishly chucked em all out!)

 

thanks,

norty

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  • 3 months later...
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