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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Urgent Help PLEASE....in court tomorrow!!!!


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Hi all....hope some of you can help me urgently with this one please.

 

A&L have issued a court claim against me via their pet solicitors, Shoosmiths.

 

They have twice refused my offer of small monthly payments against a debt which l cannot pay in full and they have passed my details to a DCA (Global) while l was in the process of negotiating with them.

 

I did a CCA request and they sent an agreement, duly signed; however, l noticed it contained unlawful charges and sent preliminary letter requesting a refund.

 

Before l could send an LBA, their response was to issue a court claim via Shoosmiths, with no further correspondence.

 

I have written to Shoosmiths informing them of my refund request letter and advising l intend to counter-claim for the unlawful charges and that, if this goes to court, l will be requesting full disclosure on structure of their charges from the judge. I thought this would worry them, but no response as yet.

 

I have to submit my initial response to court this week and am NOW A BIT LOST as to what l should do next?????????????

 

URGENT advice greatly appreciated please.

 

Also - court claim is in NORTHAMPTON county court. I know they all originat there, but can l get this transferred to my local court?

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Have received a court claim from A&L and really need some urgent help pls!

 

Have posted details and my questions in ALLIANCE & LEICESTER section, but have added this here as there seem to be more people looking at the GENERAL section.

 

All advice greatly appreciated. Need to deal with this URGENTLY.

 

Many thanks in advance...........Valdezicon9.gif

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Acknowledge their claim, and state that you intend to defend either all or part of it. make it clear that you have offered to pay what you can afford, and draw attention to the unlawful charges.make sure everything is inwriting, and if using post, send recorded.Also, calculate the value of the counterclaim, and be sure youcan back it up. I cant comment on the value of your repayment offer in ratio to the debt, but generally speaking most courts will take a sympathetic view, if it can be shown that you are being genuine. Also, by entering a defence, the hearing should be automatically transferred to your nearest county court. I'd also be inclined to check whether in their approach the bank could be guilty of harassment.Whilst they are entitled to ask back for money that is lawfully owed to them, they still ought to observe common sense....good luck.

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Tell me what the numbers are, how much are they after and how much have you got in terms of bank charges?

 

In any event, once the claim is served on you, complete the Acknowledgement of Service, I am unsure how you would complete all of this as I do not know the answer to my first question about the numbers.

 

You will then be required to prepare a Defence and make a Counterclaim for your bank charges. That Counterclaim may extinguish part or all (hopefully) of the sum that the have claimed against you.

If I have been helpful please click on my star and add a comment.

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Unholy....many thanks, will chew over yr advice.

 

GuidoT...don't want to disclose actual figures. The unlawful charges are a small part of the debt - BUT they are still there to be reclaimed and l don't mind if my day in court forces disclosure on how they calculate charges. I thought they would be worried about proceeding with the threat of disclosure, but now am uncertain. Maybe the judge will grant my request.

 

I don't mind admitting l am in deep doo-doo with several creditors, having been ill, wife (a pensioner) having been ill and me being unemployed for most of 2006. Now back in work but, as an oldie, had to take a job paying much less than l used to earn. I have made offers (twice) to pay A&L a small affordable monthly amount until my circumstances improve. They have rejected these offers outright. Their silence is what worries me.

 

Thanks to all and any further advice appreciated.

 

P.S. Matthew - it took me a long time to get into this position - much correspondence and a CCA request, so don't worry too much. Do a CCA request now if you have unlawful charges on yr account and ensure they can provide a copy of the properly executed agreement asap.

 

Suerte a todos.............Valdez

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Do a CCA request now if you have unlawful charges on yr account and ensure they can provide a copy of the properly executed agreement asap.

 

A CCA is where you request all bank statements for 6 years right?

 

I was of the understanding I dont need to do this as I know all my charges I am claiming and they are recent.

 

Please can you explain the 'executed agreement' :confused:

 

thanks, matthew :D

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Valdez... have you payed Global ? I am still investigating their right to collect payments while being a dormant company and registered as non-trading. Global are a separate Limited company and although they are owned by A & L, being limited makes all the difference, if it can be proved that they have been receiving payments. If Global were not limited, then it wouldn't matter.

 

May be worth mentioning in your dealings with them... they may back down. I am still gathering info., so will take a while before I can be certain. You posted in my thread in Legalities... which was why I remembered you...

 

;)

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Hi Priority One....NO l have not paid Global a penny, but l will certainly note the info you have provided. Thanks.

 

Matthew, a CCA request is totally separate from an SAR request. As you have all yr statements you probably don't need to do a SAR request.

 

CCA request requires the creditor to provide you with a signed copy of the properly executed agreement. This must be signed by both you and the creditor. You have to send a £1.00 PO or cheque for this service and the creditor has to respond positively within a certain timescale or they go into default on the debt. Pls look for threads re CCA REQUESTS. There are many on the forum and they will expalin things better than l can. Also pls start yr own thread if you are going to do this. You might also find a template CCA request letter in letter templates section. Regards.....Valdez

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Need some URGENT help here please.

 

Have today completed 'Acknowledgment of Service' form and ticked box

'I intend to defend part of this claim'

 

Do l now have 28 days from dated of service to enter my defence?

 

When do l ask for transfer to my local court?

 

I am very disappointed at the lack of response to this thread.

 

Part of my defence will be a request for the judge to order full detailed disclosure of A&L's penalty charging regime. I will almost certainly have to go to court (l will attend - hopefully Haywards Heath County Court) and this could be our long-sought chance to blow this unlawful regime wide open. Pls support me!

 

Mods, anyone, pls show a little interest here and help me. I must admit l find the counter claim options very confusing and have been unable to find details of fees on the moneyclaim site.

 

I really need some help - so pls respond soonest.

 

Thanks..................Valdez

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You have 28 days from when date when the claim form was deemed to be served, to issue your defence and counterclaim.

 

Unlikely to obtain disclosure as you will be on the small claims track, I think the claim is less than £5K. However, attempts have been made to circumvent disclosure in the small claims here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

 

If you mean court fees then here (as you are filing a counterclaim you have to pay a fee as do A&L):

County Court Fees

 

You mention moneyclaim I presume you are not intending to commence a claim too, just to counterclaim.

 

Your response on your thread is okay, you should see how my Lloyds thread started off, no one went near it for ages. The CAG mods etc. have alot to deal with, they cannot attend to each post.

If I have been helpful please click on my star and add a comment.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi All...need some urgent help pls as l am totally confused!

 

A&L made a court claim against me recently. I responded acknowledging part of the claim but making a counter-claim for unlawful charges.

 

I have received AQ forms, but these seem designed for me to state particulars of my claim against A&L.

 

Can l enter details of my defence and request for a payments schedule in connection with my debt to A&L on same AQ forms? If so, how?

 

Reply has to be with the court this week and l really don't know how to proceed.

 

Anyhelp gratefully received.......regards to all

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Mochamoo...hi...A&L took out a court claim against me for non-payment of a loan. I have gone thru CCA and SAR and have tried to negotiate payments with them as my circumstances have changed since the loan was taken out and l am not now in a position to meet full payments or pay off the loan.

 

They have rejected my various offers and, instead of negotiating, instructed their pet solicitors Shoosmiths to commence proceedings. I have advised them account was in dispute, but they have not responded since serving their claim.

 

I counter-claimed for unlawful charges on my account. Their claim was initiated shortly after my preliminary letter requesting charges refund, with no communication.

 

I have to submit AQ forms TOMORROW. I am ok with details of MY counter claim, but l don't now how or where to enter my response to their claim, in which l need to explain my circumstances and ask the judge to order low monthly payments until my situation improves.

 

Any advice you can offer tonight would be much appreciated.

Thanks and regards..........Valdez

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Yes you should counterclaim but need to have figures.

Have you got those ?

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Hi,

I am new to all this, have been reading some of the threads, have you been to see anyone at your citazens advice. Up here in Scotland the have a Money Matters Service that can be accessed through local councils, they can negociate on your behalf and can have a bit more presence. I don't know if that will help you any

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On allocation you will have the opportunity to put your case foreward.You should state that the account has been questioned and should be legally regarded as in dispute.

We need more in depth info,you have until 4 pm tomorrow to get it in so try and give us more info

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Hi all and thanks for rallyimg round on this.

 

Martin & Karnevil.....l am ok on my counter claim...A&L have disregarded the dispute situation and have dismissed my offers to come to an arrangement without going to court. I have submitted figures and believe l have a good case and can argue this with confidence.

 

My concern is that, while l acknowledged the debt excluding charges, l was not able and am still not able to give a financial statement. I was unemployed throughout 2006 and only got a job (at a salary much below what l used to earn) in November 2006. I will not pay tax until this month and l don't get paid until 27 March. Only then will l know what my regular monthly income will be.

 

My main concern is - where on the AQ forms can l enter my defence/response to A&L's claim and explain my situation to the judge while at the same time requesting he allows me to make low monthly payments until my situation improves?

 

I am also thinkimg of ticking 'yes' in the box where it allows a stay for one month to try to negotiate with A&L. Is this wise.

 

I owe most of the debt, cannot pay it and accept that a CCJ is probably inevitable. I just want to megotiate a mutually acceptable payment schedule........but at the same time A&L totally flouted the law and l want to make them suffer. I am not afraid, just confused. Help appreciated.

 

Thanks also Angela...l am touch with CAB but can't get to see them for some time (they must be as inundated as the banks!)

 

Regards to all.........................Valdez

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I realise that by now you will have probably filed you AQ, but would make the following observations.

 

Firstly, it would be well worth having ticked the request for a stay - as it would reinforce the fact that you are trying to negotiate a payment arrangement, and a settlement of the dispute.

 

I would suggest that the next stage is a strongly worded letter to A&L stating that they have breached pre-action protocols, the Banking Code, and the FSA Handbook by continuing with the action whilst their is a dispute.

 

Suggest that they now properly consider your offer to negotiate, taking into account your current situation, otherwise you will bring the matter to the attention of the judge.

 

Once you receive the directions from the judge, I will advise further - but please be aware that the court have no choice but to take your circumstances into account. Indeed the CPR allows that repayments even be suspended in cases of severe hardship.

 

The bottom line to this is - don't worry! They cannot take what you have not got, and they have acted in such a way that they are not going to get an easy ride in court.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Alan.....many thanks for your (customary) wise words.

 

I had to submit the AQ today. Thought about ticking 'yes' for a one month stay, but decided agaisnt it as l have written 6 or 7 letters to A&L already explaining my circumstances and requesting an arrangement, without any positive response.

 

I will do as you suggest and write a further letter emphasising the points you make and will post their reply (if l get one).

 

When all is said and done, if this goes to court, l can maybe at least get standard disclosure on the structure of their charges and make them squirm. As you so rightly said, they can't take what l haven't got, so l am really not scared of A&L.

 

Many thanks and kind regards.....................Valdez

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  • 1 month later...

Need some urgent help pls.

A&L are taking me to court over a loan account.

I have counterclaimed for charges but these are only a relatively small part of the total.

A&L have made an application to have my counterclaim struck out as an abuse of process, claiming "The defendant has raised the same grounds for filing his part admission as he has for filing his counter-claim"

 

I had to admit part of the debt, which l did, including the charges element.

I then made my counterclaim for the charges involved.

 

Have l screwed up here?

 

A&L's solicitor has sent me a letter 'inviting' me to withdraw my counter- claim "in the interests of costs and proportionality".

 

Should l agree to this? I know l can't win overall and will doubtless have a CCJ registered against me, but l really want to get A&L into court with the aim of forcing disclosure of their costs' structure.

 

I have tried to negotiate with A&L without the need for the court's involvement, and have made the court aware of this, but A&L have been negative and uncommunicative throughout.

 

REALLY NEED SOME URGENT ADVICE PLS AS I DON'T KNOW WHICH COURSE OF ACTION TO TAKE!

 

Many thanks

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erm.......

 

you really need to know how much of the loan is made up of unlawful charges

 

then minus this from the loan amount, to get a figure that you can work with

 

make it clear to the judge that, unless A+L can prove that the charges are proportionate to their costs (ask for disclosure), you wont be paying them

post office WON 12/11/06

 

abbey.LBA sent 30/10/06.MCOL claim submitted 8/11/06.allocation questionnaire sent 16/12/06.schedule of charges sent 16/12/06.WON

 

2nd abbey claim SAR sent 3/1/07.WON.complaint letter sent 18/1/08

 

alliance and Leicester.WON

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