Capone (cap one)

[Maggiebroom]

Hi Maggiebroom..

 

That is a very (but not unexpectedly) uncompromising response from Crap1. I take it that is their final response letter after being contacted by the FOS?

If so, then i wouldn't get to bothered by it to be honest. I would just resend the complaint back to the FOS stating why you still consider the documents to be non-compliant and ask them to investigate again.

I would also mention to the FOS in brief that TS are (possibly) upholding your complaint against Crap1 for harassment too. It all helps.

 

Not sure about it being their final response Davey, but I intend to write a reply dealing with all their points and also quoting my reply from the FOS, which states that a properly executed agreement has to include all prescribed terms.

I shall also ask for their final response and then pass that on to the FOS, with a copy of TS reply re: the harassment.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

maggiebroom

[hellhasnofury]

Hi All

 

This is the letter I received from Crap 1 yesterday.

 

Dear Ms maggiebroom

 

I understand you're unhappy with the default notice we've sent you as you feel you are in dispute with us.

 

Looking at your account, I can see that we wrote to S** W******* at your local Trading Standards Office,on 3 September. We informed her that the payment protection insurance (PPI) has been added correctly. This is because you ticked the acceptance box on your application. We sent you the terms & conditions of your PPI policy and it gave you 30 days to cancel if you decided it wasn't for you. You could have also contacted us at any time to cancel the policy if you were unhappy with it.

 

You've mentioned that there isn't a regulated agreement for your account. However the letter we received on 3 September from Ms W****** states that we have complied with Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act. We did this by sending her a copy of your short application form, that has the credit agreement on it, that you signed and returned to us. By signing this agreement you accepted the terms & conditions of your account.

 

The default notice we sent on 2 September is correct and on line with the terms & Conditions of your account. It has been sent because you're over your agreed credit limit and we haven't received a payment since April.

 

In the default notice it states we need to receive your payment of at least £*** no later than 23 days after we sent it to you. Therefore we should receive your required payment by 24 September. If we don't receive your payment we will a statement of default and report this to the credit reference agencies. If your account does default we will pass it on to a debt collection agency. They will contact you directly about paying your outstanding debt.

 

yours sincerely

 

Ellie Renshaw.

 

I am not quite sure how to reply to this. Thanks to TS, who have made the whole thing ten times worse, Crap 1 have decided that my application is not unenforceable, and that I should pay up. Never mind that they defaulted on the original request for the CCA, they have totally ignored the legal dispute and caused me much distress and harassment with continuous telephone calls.

 

I am totally p***** off with all this now. I know that the CCA is not properly executed and the only way I can see now is to take them to court for the harassment which will bring up the question of the CCA.

 

If anyone has any thoughts on this I would appreciate them. I shall have to compose another letter that deals with all their statements, and will post it here when I have decided what to write.

One good thing: today I got a copy letter from TS to Crap 1 telling them that they now think they have committed harassment.

 

What sort of idiots are they? Having messed up the whole argument they now seem to want to put this small matter right. I think its too late for that.

 

Anyone?? I need a little encouragement today, as I am a bit down.

 

maggiebroom

 

 

Hello Maggie

 

My dear friend, I am so sorry that they are getting you down. but take heart everytime they harass you with a phone call, it all adds to your harassment claim.

 

Personally I would wait and welcome them to take you to court. they file it, you defend,, and when they least expect it you put in a counter claim for harassment. Then before the court date, they poop it and agree to settle, and you have no debt or default and maybe a bit of dosh as well.

 

In our dreams eh, but it would be nice,

 

Anyway that E Renshaw, will be her just deserts, I do believe in Karma, what you dish out, we be dished 10 fold. Now there is a nice thought. That should make you smile

[Maggiebroom]

Hi Hell

 

I wish they would take it to court, then it would all get settled. I had thought to do it the other way, Take them to court for the harassment and then they would have to provide the CCA. This would get rid of two probs in one go, as if they couldn't produce an agreement, which I know they can't; that would be proof that they were harassing me for nothing while the account was in legal dispute in the first place.

 

Er!! I think that's what I mean. Pay attention at the back there.

 

I have recorded every call (date and time) I don't have a physical recording, but then I would demand they provide their itemised phone bill, which would be proof enough. Over 300 calls in 10 weeks

 

That letter from TS must have done some good as their wasn't one call yesterday. BLISS.

 

Thanks for cheering me up. I have had some personal problems to deal with lately and that hasn't helped. However hopefully I can get this thing rolling again and beat these

s****.

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

UPDATE

 

This is my reply to the latest letter for Crap 1.

 

Thank you for your letter dated 21 September. I feel that I must point out that with all due respect to the Trading Standards local officer, M* W******, has not taken proper advice concerning the need for a properly executed Consumer credit Agreement. I have it on good legal authority from several sources that the copy of the application form you sent me does not comply with the Act at all. There are no prescribed terms included, and this in itself renders the application unenforceable. Neither were the terms & conditions you sent applicable to the date of the application.

 

You were also in default by not supplying a true copy of anything within the prescribed time limit of 12 working days. Therefore this account is in legal dispute and your actions in adding interest, and adding payments are illegal. You are also in breach of the Act by issuing a default notice and threatening to pass on the account to a debt collection agency.

 

I have received a reply from the Office of Fair Trading and I quote:

 

If a creditor fails to comply with a valid request within a period of 12 days (not including the date of the receipt of the request) he may not enforce the agreement at all. This prevents enforcement with or without a court order.

 

A ‘true copy’ of an agreement principally consists of the terms & conditions of the agreement and the statuary content of the agreement. The name, address, and signature of the debtor does not have to be provided. Additionally, the creditor must supply the total payable sum paid by the debtor; the total sum which has become payable under the agreement but remains unpaid; and the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor (the latter two must include the various amounts comprised in that total sum and the date when each is/was due). However, the copy must be a copy.

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 states that the prescribed terms as statuary content, must be included in the original agreement for the agreement to be properly executed. These were not included in the application form you sent me, therefore again, the agreement is unenforceable, and the account is in clear legal dispute.

Your company has continuously harassed both myself and my husband with over three hundred phone calls since the 27th July 2007. I have logged by date and time the full extent of the calls that I have knowledge of. M* W****** has also conceded that your continuous calls after repeated requests to cease, both orally and in written form, could amount to harassment under the Protection form harassment Act 1997, and also in contravention of the Harassment of Debtors, s40 Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

I therefore ask that you provide a properly executed agreement under the rules of the CCA 1974, within the next 28 days or I shall be forced to take this matter before the courts.

 

Anyones opinion before this is sent would be gratefully accepted.

 

 

maggiebroom

 

 

[reidnet]

Hi Maggie,

Sorry to see you are still having a lot of bother with Crap 1, Im sure with the help of folks on here you will get all the support you need.

 

I myself have been a bit quiet due to personal things going on too and with some more bad health, but Im still around on and off.

 

You should have changed your telphone number to one of those 0870 number which would have cost them to call you and you get a percentage of the call value..lol , An def Harrasment with over 300 calls, will they ever learn ?

 

Good Luck and keep your chin up Maggie..

 

Ian

x

[Maggiebroom]

HI Ian

 

Glad to see you back again, and hopefully in better health and feeling good. yes I am still having problems with the dreaded Crap 1.

 

What did you think of the above letter??

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

I am adding the following to the end of my letter to Crap 1. See #204 above

 

I therefore ask that you provide a properly executed agreement under the rules of the CCA 1974, within the next 28 days or I shall be forced to take this matter before the courts, on three counts:

 

1) Non compliance with request for properly executed Consumer Credit Agreement

 

2) Removal of default due to point No 1.

 

3) Harassment after continuous requests to cease, both orally and by correspondence.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Could someone have a look and tell me what they think PLEASE

I have given them 28 days as I need that time to save the court fee.

 

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

This is a letter I have written to Debitas (Crap 1 legal dept) and I cannot think what to say. They wrote to me saying that I owe XXX amount and demanding the full amount or some sort of payment offer.

 

I have drafted this letter but it doesn't sound right to me. Can someone please help and test the wording for me.

 

Christopher Shaw

Debitas Legal Services Manager

PO Box 6459

Nottingham

NG2 3FG

 

29th September 2007

 

Your Ref: DEB/L5550

 

Dear Sir

 

Re Account: 0000000000000000

 

I wish to inform you that this alleged debt with capital One Bank (Europe) plc, is in clear legal dispute because of the following points:

 

1) There was non compliance with a request to provide a properly executed agreement under s77-79 Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

2) Failure to supply a properly executed agreement within the 12 working day limit

rendering the account unenforceable without a court order.

 

3) Failure to supply terms & conditions relevant to the date of the application form.

 

I have many times requested ‘a true copy’ of a properly executed agreement, but this has been ignored. I can therefore only conclude that there is no properly executed to this account.

 

After 28 days from the date of this letter I shall institute proceedings in my local court, for the production of the aforesaid document, the removal of any default against this account and the continuous harassment of both myself and my husband after repeated requests to cease both orally and written.

 

Yours faithfully

 

PLEASE PLEASE can someone look this over. I need to send this off as soon as possible.

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

Anyone PLEASE for the above letter.

 

I really need another opinion on this.

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

That means post #204 - #208

 

Thanks again

[hellhasnofury]

I am adding the following to the end of my letter to Crap 1. See #204 above

 

I therefore ask that you provide a properly executed agreement under the rules of the CCA 1974, within the next 28 days or I shall be forced to take this matter before the courts, on three counts:

 

1) Non compliance with request for properly executed Consumer Credit Agreement

 

2) Removal of default due to point No 1.

 

3) Harassment after continuous requests to cease, both verbally and by written correspondence.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Could someone have a look and tell me what they think PLEASE

I have given them 28 days as I need that time to save the court fee.

 

 

 

 

maggiebroom

 

Change two words Maggie

[hellhasnofury]

This is a letter I have written to Debitas (Crap 1 legal dept) and I cannot think what to say. They wrote to me saying that I owe XXX amount and demanding the full amount or some sort of payment offer.

 

I have drafted this letter but it doesn't sound right to me. Can someone please help and test the wording for me.

 

Christopher Shaw

Debitas Legal Services Manager

PO Box 6459

Nottingham

NG2 3FG

 

29th September 2007

 

Your Ref: DEB/L5550

 

Dear Sir

 

Re Account: 0000000000000000

 

I am writing to inform you that this alleged debt with capital One Bank (Europe) plc, is in clear legal dispute because of the following points:

 

1) There was non- compliance with a request to provide a properly executed agreement under s77-79 Consumer Credit Act 1974. I wrote to cap on on blah blah for a true copy of the credit agreement for the above account

 

2) Failure to supply a properly executed agreement within the 12 working day limit The time limits for the production of the above agreement expired blah and blah Thus rendering the account unenforceable without a court order.

 

3) Failure to supply terms & conditions relevant to the date of the application form.

 

I have many times requested ‘a true copy’ of a properly executed agreement, but this has been ignored. I can therefore only conclude that there is no properly executed agreement to this account.

 

After 28 days from the date of this letter I shall commence/ initiate legal proceedings in my local court, for the production of the aforesaid document, the removal of any default against this account and the continuous harassment of both myself and my husband after repeated requests to cease this unnecessay harassment both verbally and within written correspondence

 

Yours faithfully

 

PLEASE PLEASE can someone look this over. I need to send this off as soon as possible.

 

 

maggiebroom

 

Sorry Maggie, ignore the last post.

 

I have had a look at the letter you posted. It looks good, short and straight to the point. I hope you don't mind I add a few works in black

[Maggiebroom]

That is just perfect

 

Many many thanks Hell

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

It is now almost a week since we had a phone call from Crap 1. I think the TS writing to say that they could be causing harassment has finally sunk in.

 

I did get a call from Debitas their legal department asking me to speak to Mr Jondal, but hubby told him I was out and would call back. Of course I didn't. I have had my final say and they have 28 days.

 

I have been reading on other threads that the FOS have been getting peoples claims sorted. As mine is really just the CCA for both hubby and myself that is needed I think I may let them deal with it as to find the money for the court will be quite hard for us.

 

I have had Crap 1's final response so I can pass it over to the FOS now.

I think I will wait and see what they have to say.

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

UPDATE

 

No phone Calls :D but no post either. so perhaps that letter from the TS telling them they are harassing us worked, and they have given up.

 

maggiebroom

[davey77]

Hey there!

 

Well, lets hope that's the case but i didn't think anyone is getting their post at the moment are they with the strike causing such a backlog!

 

I haven't had any post for days

[Maggiebroom]

Hi All

 

I had one phone call this week from Debitas. Crap Ones legal department. After the usual -

"Can I speak to Mrs Maggiebroom", I asked who it was. When she eventually admitted, after many times asking for identification, that it was Debitas, all I politely said was.

"Put it in writing Dear".

 

They have till the 28th October then I start proceedings. Still not sure whether to go the court route or FOS route. I will have to see how the finances go.

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

The calls from Debitas (Crap One) have started again, although only two today.

I got a letter this morning demanding full payment so they will also get a letter saying that the account is in legal dispute and lets see what that brings.

Not sure they can pass it back to Crap 1 as they are their in house legal department. Its like passing it from the left to the right.

 

lets hope neither of them know what they are doing. They only have two weeks left before I contact the FOS and take legal action.

 

maggiebroom

[the main man]

Maggie,

 

What number do Debitas use? have had a couple of new 0800 numbers on the phone the last few days while i've been at work. Does it end in 415?

 

Regards

MM

[Maggiebroom]

Hi Main Man

 

I think these are Debitas numbers. (the ones in red) and 415 is there.

 

08004220264 08004220280

08004220293 08009524966

08004220295 08003160492

08004220292 08002882127

08005610415 08004220278

08009525279

 

These are all Crap One numbers, and as Debitas is there in house legal services I am sure they are included. Believe me, I have 1471'd all their calls and all these numbers are theirs. Not all of them are listed but they are definitely Crap 1's

Hope that helps.

 

maggiebroom

[the main man]

Hi Maggie,

 

Had 3 calls this last week on the 08005610415 number, which is the first contact from the for quite a few weeks. TS have changed their tune with me this past week, and now seem to think current T&C are acceptable:eek: It is a shame that it has taken them 5 months to come to this opinion:mad: Not to worry, I am not going to give up the fight against Crap1 and certainly not against TS, the way they have turned their backs on the consumer is shameful!!

 

 

Keep going Maggie, you will have your day

 

MM

[Maggiebroom]

Got a phone call from Debitas this afternoon asking why I am not paying.

I told him I was determined to see them in court and he said I would be worse off.

 

I don't think so. No CCA , no money.

 

He insisted that I should pay. Then ten minutes later I got another call from the same number stating that I had not spoken to anyone and not given my security details. I was absolutely furious. I had spoken to someone not minutes before, gone through all the checks and still they phone practically calling me a liar.

 

Well that will all go on my harassment case, and that will be set in motion this week.

 

Maggiebroom

[hellhasnofury]

Got a phone call from Debitas this afternoon asking why I am not paying.

I told him I was determined to see them in court and he said I would be worse off.Yeah right whatever the moron, like he has some power, just upset cause you did not fall for it and he did not make commission for his time.

I've just got a list of people to ring and try to scare into giving me money, cause I am scary or what. eh.

 

I don't think so. No CCA , no money.

 

He insisted that I should pay. Then ten minutes later I got another call from the same number stating that I had not spoken to anyone and not given my security details. lets send you straight to jail Maggie, I can hear the police sirens from Manchester I was absolutely furious. I had spoken to someone not minutes before, gone through all the checks and still they phone practically calling me a liar.

 

Well that will all go on my harassment case, and that will be set in motion this week.

 

Maggiebroom

 

Hello Maggie Hope you are well,

 

They do, do this, I bet they even rehease it,

 

Picture the scenario, two morons, you ring her first and threaten her and when you get nowhere I ring back in 10mns, we have got to get our commission.

 

Some people have no morals, or humanity, they have to pay their bills somehow or else some dca will be after them.

 

Maggie they have the power to do nothing, place it on your file and just remind cap 1 that they have breach the oft guidence of debt collection, by disclosing your data to a third party whilst the account is in dispute.

 

Speak soon

[Maggiebroom]

I have had a final response letter from Capital One and they are insisting that they will not remove defaults etc.

I think it is now time for me to contact the FOS again with all correspondence and let them have a go at these nasty little people.

 

This is my letter to the FOS.

 

We have now received a final response from Capital One Bank (Europe) plc, but unfortunately there has been no satisfactory answer to this dispute.

 

We have made repeated requests to Capital One Bank for properly regulated and executed Consumer Credit Agreements, but they are insisting that they have complied with the Act by sending us a copy of our original application forms and a recent copy of the Terms & Conditions.

 

These applications are pre-contractual and have none of the prescribed terms demanded by the Act.Unfortunately the situation was clouded by the fact that my local Trading Standards Office wrote to Capital One, stating that they had complied with the Act. (A copy of this letter is enclosed).

 

I am also enclosing a complete dossier of all the correspondence relating to this case including all letters. Both my husband and myself have been constantly harassed by telephone as I stated in my original form and a copy of the log I kept with all dates and times is included. These calls have now stopped but I hope to pursue the harassment case to its full extent as I feel that Capital One bank has bullied and intimidated both of us to the extent that our health has been affected, both mentally and physically.

 

Had we both been supplied both with ‘true copies’ of properly executed agreements this matter could have been resolved in a matter of weeks rather than months. Their blatant disregard for the time restraints and the necessary requirements of the Act, are nothing short of scandalous. We can only conclude that Capital One have not complied with the provisions of the Act by keeping properly regulated accounts, and therefore we do not acknowledge the alleged debts.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

I don't think this sounds right. Anyone got any ideas or should I add or subtract anything. Should I add about the default and that I want it removed, or leave that to the FOS. (do they deal with that part of it)?

 

 

maggiebroom

[Maggiebroom]

Anyones opinion please!!!!!

 

maggiebroom