Ensure a returned deposit

[devon_dan]

Hi there

I have a question about the return of a deposit that is being held by an administrative company that the landlord uses.

Basically, the landlord is hugely in breech of the tenancy agreement (category 1 and 2 breeches of the Housing Act, multiple maintenance issues...the list goes on). We unfortunately were unaware until recently of the actions we could have taken to repair the property and our tenancy is now approaching its final month.

Our legal advisor has told us to withhold our final month’s payment and has contacted the landlord to see if he will accept this action as compensation. However given his general arrogance and approach to property management I think this is unlikely.

If we continue to hold our rent back, does the landlord still have a legal right to recover it from the deposit in light of his invalidating our contract? Or do we have any power to prevent the company that are holding the deposit from allowing him to do so because he has broken the contract? Ideally we would like to recover our deposit and if he feels this unfair, he can take us to court for the outstanding rent (and there is virtually no way he would win).

I hope this is sufficient detail and it all makes sense.

Thanks for your time

Devon Dan

[CourseRep]

Devon Dan; rent should not be withheld for no good reason. Usually it is a last resort action. If you did all what's reasonable to inform and encourage landlord to carry out the repairs and he did not, then you could undertake the repairs yourself and deduct your costs from the rent. However as this is your final month then this would be pointless. i would therefore agree with your adviser- refuse to pay any more rent and let him take you to court. His incompetence would be then revealed.

Beware though, your deposit will be gone! The agents will consult the landlord about the deposit and you may have to sue him to get it back.

[devon_dan]

Devon Dan; rent should not be withheld for no good reason. Usually it is a last resort action. If you did all what's reasonable to inform and encourage landlord to carry out the repairs and he did not, then you could undertake the repairs yourself and deduct your costs from the rent. However as this is your final month then this would be pointless. i would therefore agree with your adviser- refuse to pay any more rent and let him take you to court. His incompetence would be then revealed.

 

Thanks for your time CourseRep. Indeed you make some very good points and with hindsight being an exact science I do wish we had followed this up earlier to get things fixed. We are withholding our rent based on legal advice so our actions are not without basis. At the bottom I have put links to just a couple of pictures for your amusement. These are only a fraction of the things we have for court though...

 

Beware though, your deposit will be gone! The agents will consult the landlord about the deposit and you may have to sue him to get it back.

 

I am certain that the final result of this, even if we have to go to court, is that we will recover our money. We have so much evidence for court and we know its all completely unchallenged. If anyone is interested in a list of the things it helps to have in these cases, I'm happy to list what we have collected. Still, it would be really helpful if anyone could throw just a bit more insight on our rights to challenge the administrative company that are holding the deposit.

 

They have full copies of all our documentation and are aware that the landlord is in breech of his contract and that the property is in a state of disrepair. In light of this, they have also refused to do businiess with the landlord in the future. Surely if they continue to assist him in getting his money, it would consitute some form of negligence or a failure to uphold a duty of care? It seems impossible to me that a company who are aware that a customer is in breech of the contract they hold with him have any legal obligations to follow standard protocol what so ever...

 

Again I would be grateful for your opinions. I plan to make a full write up of this when it is done so that those with future problems can learn from our mistakes!

 

Thanks

 

Devon Dan

 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b266/dp_pearce/DSCF0165.jpg" A hole in the ceiling caused by water damage. This took more than 5 months before it finally came down. Landlord had been informed...

 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b266/dp_pearce/DSCF0168.jpg This was the state of the bathroom when we moved in. Its still the same now. The hot and cold water can come out of eiher tap, depending on which you turn on first...

 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b266/dp_pearce/DSCF0159.jpg There is an upstairs bathroom that the landlord started to get fix. I think this job stopped because he didn't pay the builders again. He also refused to fit an extractor fan because of the cost...

 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b266/dp_pearce/DSCF0559.jpg With no extractor fan, this happens! We bleech it once a week but it still comes back...

 

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b266/dp_pearce/DSCF0563.jpg The mould in some of the bedrooms has got beyond a joke as well!

[demon_x_slash]

We have so much evidence for court and we know its all completely unchallenged. If anyone is interested in a list of the things it helps to have in these cases, I'm happy to list what we have collected.

 

Please do, if you wouldn't mind. Thank you; someone on here could find it very useful for their own situation, and that's what this site is all about

 

 

Still, it would be really helpful if anyone could throw just a bit more insight on our rights to challenge the administrative company that are holding the deposit.

 

The administrative company holding your deposit? What sort of arrangement is this? Your contract, your tenancy, is with your landlord, and you would sue him and only him for the return of your deposit. It is up to him where he gets the money from, it's not your problem

[devon_dan]

Hi demon_x_slash. The set up is like this. An admin company act as a middleman for certain administrative duties, such as arranging the tenancy contract and the fowarding of rental payments. They also provide him with guidance however they do not manage the property - the landlord retains this role. I think its quite common for HMO places...might be wrong!

 

Here is a link to a document that contains a walk through of our situation that might be helpful to others. Its a bit long so I made it into a pdf to avoid boring the pants of those who can hopefully shed some light on my own issues! Any comments, mistakes or corrections, just let me know.

 

www.danpearce.co.uk/documents/sueing_your_landlord.pdf

[demon_x_slash]

As I thought, the above advice would still be the same - the only person that can be accountable for the return of your deposit is your landlord, not the agents.

 

Thanks for posting the doc - I'll take a look later

[MrShed]

Didnt read much of the PDF, it had the magic words:

 

"At this point, the landlord had not done an inventory and still doesn’t have one."

 

No inventory, no deductions from deposit.

[devon_dan]

Even if we have refused to pay the last months rent? I thought the landlord had some right to take this from the deposit...

[MrShed]

Hang on. Are you planning to withhold the last months rent as compensation or in order to perform the repairs?

[devon_dan]

At the moment we are withholding it based on our legal advisors advice while they try and come to some arrangement for compensation. We have just over a month less so nothing will get done in that time. I think if that fails, the landlord will take the rent from the deposit and we will go to court.

 

In other news though, our persistance with the council has now paid off. He was sent a schedule 16 notice to act on the catagory one faults and hasn't. He now has 10 days to arrange a site visit that will see the landlord being given a full schedule of works to be completed within 28 days or he faces the magistrates court aside from our civil case. You would think he would have realised he was in the wrong by now...

[MrShed]

This thread appears to have become overcomplicated TBH. In my opinion, you should not withhold rent for compensation - however, if you have been advised by letting/rental law specialists to do otherwise, follow their advice. Ultimately, the only way you can ENSURE the return of your deposit is to sue for it. It is my opinion that if you withhold rent for compensation, such a suit would fail as the rent has not been withheld to cover your own FINANCIAL loss, as would be allowed by your legal right of offset. However, I also believe that you would struggle in the other respect, if you paid the rent(and/or used the last months deposit as rent) and then sued for compensation - it is my opinion that you have left such a claim for compensation too late in your tenancy, as fair or unfair as this may sound, and bear in mind this is only my opinion.

 

I must stress that it is my STRONG opinion that you should NOT withhold rent for this. If you want compensation, as opposed to offsetting financial loss, you should certainly sue for it rather than using rent. However, I would withhold the last months rent in order to ensure the return of your deposit.

 

As a side note, this is going to sound well "off", but not supposed to, just curious: why are you not asking your legal advisors these questions rather than ourselves? Just because if they feel you have LEGAL grounding for withholding the rent, they should also be able to justify to you how this action is not going to lose you your deposit.

[devon_dan]

I have asked here because the set up is a tad different to the majority, so I was trying to get an idea of how others may have dealt with an outside company that are merely holding a deposit and not directly involved in the tenant/landlord dispute. Legal advisors always seem very quick to say "sue 'em as well".

 

Our legal advice has been to withhold the last months rent and then sue the landlord if he takes any of the deposit so that is what we will do. We stand to lose nothing (worst case is we pay 12 months rent for 12 months 'character building') and at the very least he will be greatly inconvenienced both finacially and time wise as well as pursued by the council to fix the place so the next guys don't go through what we have. Its as much about right and wrong as it is about money.

 

Thank you all for your time and wise words though. If at the end of this there is anything I think would be useful for others then I will post it.

[CourseRep]

the only way you can ENSURE the return of your deposit is to sue for it.

- not in cases where landlords are either in finanial difficulties, are using every trick in a book to stall or simply make arrangments to pay in installements....of £2 per month...

 

It is my opinion that if you withhold rent for compensation, such a suit would fail as the rent has not been withheld to cover your own FINANCIAL loss, as would be allowed by your legal right of offset.

- I think Devon Dan is withholding of the rent because the landlord has breached the contract, plus I imagine with such extensive disrepairs, the tenants have suffered financial losses and inconvienience already. Also, I think that it would be unreasonable to expect tenants to fork out a heap of money up front- we are not talking here about one small disrepair issue.

 

I think ultimately, with landlord like this, devon Dan would be naive to hope that he will be duly compensated. By withholding last month rent at least his deposit is protected. If he wants to then he can leave, draw the line and move on.

[MrShed]

Yes but contract law allows for the actual proven financial loss to be awarded in the case of breach of contract, not compensation per se - this is at a judges discretion and is not set in law.

[devon_dan]

CourseRep is right. This is the advice we have received and the disrepairs and inconvieniences are extensive.

 

I can imagine that we are likely to get the court decision we want but will have to fight to see the money. Still we wont let it rest. As I mentioned above though, the shear inconvenience it is going to cause the landlord is a partial success and he certainly wont be able to pull the same tricks to avoid the council (he can't re-let the property until he has satisfied their requests). At least who ever gets this place after us will move into a property in a fit state!

[MrShed]

No problem Devon - at the end of the day if you are speaking to legal advisors, you have to take their advice over anything you see on here...I just happen to disagree with them!