Claim against HSBC

[jimclark]

This is my first posting on this site

I'm a little way down the line with my claim against HSBC for unlawful charges. Used some standard template letters from the thisismoney site. However, your site seems to have more support and informed comment! At this point, I have (after being pretty much ignored - in spite of sending recorded delivery letters) issued a county court summons via the HMCS Money claim online service. As you have indicated, HSBC filed a defence disputing my claim for refund (presumably to give them more time). However, since the defence has been filed I (apparently) can no longer proceed with the claim online. This is the bit from the HMCS site:- You are unable to take any further action online on this claim.

 

"The Defendant disputes the whole amount you have claimed. Your claim cannot proceed online and will be transferred to the appropriate court for continuation. You will receive confirmation to where the claim has been transferred to shortly."

 

So, I guess it's now a waiting game for a court appearance?? I'm quite looking forward to my day in court! (must be a masochist!).

Is there anything I should be doing while I'm waiting? I seem to remember some reference on your site to a court pack (where I fill in my details).

I don't know if there is anything new in this defence from what others have experienced. I guess I assumed too much in hoping that the bank would roll over and just pay up! Sorry, if this requires regurgitation of stuff you've already covered. Perhaps someone could just give some links to the next stage to save repeating what's already been posted. I will report all of the next stages of my claim in order that it may help others.

[Guest louis wu]

Hello,

 

This is the court bundle you refered to

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/33060-basic-court-bundle.html

 

Have a read through it, and try not to be put off by the legal parts, it gets easier the more you look at it, and were not solicitors and as such not expected to understand every bit.

 

Any problems let us know

 

Good luck

 

louis

[pinkduchess]

hi jim - it would be worth starting a thread on the hsbc forum to get advice specifically to hsbc. theres lots of friendly people on there with great advice.

 

youre well on your way with your claim - unlikely to get your day in court though! (sorry to dissapoint) you will probably get a notice of transfer to your local court & will then need to see what the local judge decides to do.

 

in the meantime you should be nudging Dg into making you an offer. lots of info on the hsbc threads about this.

[Guest ChloeJane]

Hi there,

 

Yes their standard delay tactic to defend. Costs them nothing to defend and of course they can't be seen as been guilty by default!

 

So the matter now will be transferred to your local court.

 

They have 28 days from the date of acknowledgement of service to file their defence.

 

The court will be in touch and forward you a copy of their defence. Thumb twiddling time till then as nothing can be done except to read up on bundles and maybe prepare for what is called an allocation questionare to arrive.

 

This is a set of either questions they are asking you on what you are seeking and to allocate time as an estimate.

 

To read up about them and how to fill it out should it arrive click here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

 

Some courts know of the banks and issues and have dispensed with them, so if they have, don't panic, here is another link!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/80091-your-court-dispensing-allocation.html

 

The bundles information the link has already been given. Hope this gives some more direction of what next.....all the best with your claim..

 

CJ

[jimclark]

Thanks guys! Overwhelmed with the detailed and rapid responses! Will follow your advice and look around for the HSBC forum.

[jimclark]

By the way - what or who is Dg?

[pinkduchess]

HSBC's solicitors.

 

actually jim I'll pm a mod for you to move this thread to the hsbc forum - then you wont need to restart.

[HSBCrusher]

moved!

 

welcome to the HSBC forum!

 

Crusher

[jimclark]

Received a form from the Northampton Court that the claim had been referred to my local court of Colchester (dated 4th May 2007). In your experience, how long does it take for the New court to set a date? Should I be sending in my court bundle now? Also, should I send a copy of the court bundle (with my details duly inserted) to the court now? Finally, should we now be including a copy of the bank's standard contract/terms of business so that we don't have the same problems as the TSB claimant whose case was lost?

[lateralus]

the court bundle is way down the line - don't even be thinking about it yet -

 

first - send a copy of your breakdown to both the court and to dg and do it straight away.

 

after that, i think you'd do better to read this threadNew---after 28 Days - Maybe No Aq!!!!!!!

read post 1 - it explains what happens next.

 

the only hesitation i have is your breakdown of charges - does it include the names of the charges -as per your statements - i.e. total charges, recall s/o-d/d, card misuse, notified fees, etc.

if not - can you put those in there before you send it off - but get it done quickly - don't change the amount you've claimed - just expand on those charges descriptions. then get that off asap

 

you are right where you should be - get back with any questions.

the local courts all take differnet times to respond.

[jimclark]

Hi Lateralus, Thanks for the quick reply. I did send a copy of my breakdown to DG some time back (e-mail attachment to Kate Eaves on 05/05/07). No response, even though I requested a read receipt. I didn't send a copy to the local court -so I will do so straight away. I did do a breakdown of all the bank's charges (copy and paste from my on-line statements). I then calculated the interest from date the bank applied the charges (simple interest - not compound - silly me) and this was the basis of my claim.

The bank's defence (disputing the whole amount of my claim) is based on the personal and/or business conditions -blah, blah).

[lateralus]

i had mentioned expanding on the charges description because some of the other sites say put "charges" which at some point - dg will kick back saying it's too vague - so i was just checking. some other sites say to send the statements and the bank won't even look at those. did you use a spreadsheet or interest charges calculator for the interest? in other words did you claim interest from the date of each charge to the date of the claim? hopefully yes, sounds like everything is tickety boo - just get those breakdowns off.

[jimclark]

Hi again,

Yes I calculated by using 8% per annum from incurring the charge to the date of submission of the claim. However, since i didn't compound (interest on interest, year by year) I will lose out slightly. however, I will be happy to get that amount back!

[jimclark]

Hi Lateralus,

Have now received a "General Form Of Judgement or Order" from the Colchester Court (transferred from the Northampton Court).

 

It says:-

 

Before District Judge Molle sitting at Colchester County Court etc. on 10-May-2007. Considered the papers in the case and ordered that:

1) The Claim is allocated to the Small Claims Track

2) The action is stayed until 4-July-2007 during which period the parties shall try to settle the matter or narrow the issues. The Parties shall negotiate expeditiously, openly and purposefully without pre-conditions, to include of necessary at least one face to face meeting at an agreed time and location, to be attended by persons on behalf of both Parties who are fully authorised to negotiate and agree a final settlement.

3) By 4pm on 18th July 2007 the parties shall file at Court an agreed report in writing of the outcome of negotiations including all steps taken by both Parties towards achieving a settlement (without disclosing any matters which remain subject to 'without prejudice' terms); an explanation of what was agreed, what remains in dispute, and the reason for failure to reach a settlement; (if no settlement has been agreed).

4) Failure to comply constructively and fully with this Order or to engage properly in negotiations may be penalised in costs or by sanctions

, which may include striking out a Party's Statement of Case.

5) Because this Order has been made by the Court without consideration representations from the Parties, the Parties have the right to apply to have the Order set aside, varied or stayed. A Party wishing to make an application must send or deliver the application to the Court (together with any appropriate fee) to arrive within seven days of service of this Order.

 

So...... do I phone DG now and set up a meeting?

 

Regards,

JimClark

[Audreygreeneyes]

Oh thisis the first time I think this has been done Jim, maybe a recorded del letter, then oyu have proof for the Judge when they fail to set this meeting up ?

[jimclark]

Hi - thanks for the quick response. I have sent the standard first 'nudge' letter (on 28/05/07) devised by Lateralus:-

 

DG Solicitors

12 Calthorpe Road

Edgbaston

Birmingham

B15 1QZ

For the attention of Ms K. Eaves

 

 

 

Re: xxxx - v - HSBC Bank

account no xxxx

claim no and filing date xxx30/03/2007

 

It has come to my attention that as of 04/05/07, that an Allocation Questionnaire may not be required in this case.

 

I am mindful of the vast number of claims with which you are currently dealing. In order to more speedily resolve this matter, I am willing to accept the sum of £xxxx this being the claim via the court plus a further charge of £xthat was recently added to my existing charges). I do not agree to waive my rights in respect of any other actions, nor do I agree to a clause of confidentiality.

 

I hope to hear from you very soon so that a reasonable conclusion to this claim might be achieved. I am sure that the courts would approve of our settling this matter in a timely manner and without their further intervention.

 

For your records, I enclose another copy of my schedule of charges (sent to you via e-mail on 05/05/2007). I look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

 

So.... hopefully the court will see that I am attempting to resolve the issue with DG.

[jimclark]

Oh, by the way, the 'nudge' letter to DG was sent via recorded!

[Audreygreeneyes]

yes I used that one as well and sent it recorded......... but liek all other letters faxes and emails.......... they do not answer until they want to.........you filed 3 days before me.........lol

[lateralus]

i agree - i've never seen that direction before -

i'd send them another nudge (you sending them letters is equivalent to you trying to be reasonable and getting it resolved - them not even bothering to answer is them not) so send as many as you like.

i'd refer to each point of the judges letter in a new letter - for example

next letter - say basically the same as before but start off with - i understand we have been asked by the court to try and settle this between us - without further intervention from the court -

to that end - i would accept.... blah.blah.blah.

 

 

then a week later - write another one - and say - i understand we have been asked to resolved this - to this end - (don't know where you are - but say for example you are in newcastle) i suggest we meet literally half way - i am prepared to meet you at a location in leeds on any saturday morning (as i work during the week) -

 

not joking - offer to meet them when you would be available and - about half way - between you and them (edgbaston, birmingham) i'm making this up as i go along - but seriously - offer to meet them some place. they obviously won't - but again - you've tried and when/if it comes in front of a judge - you win being reasonable - hands down.

each letter after you suggest something - say you will accept xxxx. etc.

 

see how it goes - i'm thinking they will offer before they have to show they tried. obviously recorded delivery on everything and keep copies.

and send a breakdown with each one - - the nearer it gets - really push for them to settle.

[jimclark]

Hi Folks,

Thought I might send the following to the court - what do you think?

xxxx-v- HSBC Bank

Claim No: xxxx

Ref: xxxx

Date Issued: 30/03/2007

Thank you for your General Form Of Judgment or Order (N24), which was received on 1st June 2007.

The defendant, represented by DG Solicitors, has not responded to my correspondence (either by e-mail or recorded delivery letter).

Since I am just a private individual, I have relied on a grass roots organisation for advice on preparing my claim. This organisation seems to have large numbers of cases where this defendant has ignored approaches to settle these issues. Instead, they appear to wait for a hearing date and finally make an offer to avoid having to go to court.

It does appear that this defendant is playing the courts to their advantage. I, of course, fully accept the judge’s directive to make the best effort to settle this case via a face to face meeting, however, I do not seem to be able to arrange this. I would like to record that, since the defendant entered their defence on 4th May, they have refused to respond to my communications. Furthermore, I first applied to the bank for refund of these charges on 24th February, 2007 and I do not believe that it would take this amount of time to resolve this issue.

I will make further attempts this week via direct phone contact to arrange a meeting, but, if unsuccessful, would like to apply to the court to have the Order stayed. I understand that I must make this request before 8th June 2007.

 

Yours sincerely,

[lateralus]

oh, yes, how silly of me - here i am telling you to meet them half way to birmingham when you have a perfectly good hsbc branch on every corner.

THAT'S where you offer to meet them!!!! i'm a fool (but my heart's in the right place!) i see your point writing to the bank - but i'd copy it to dg - or send it to dg and copy it to the bank - as dg is their legal representative in this matter - it's them you need to prod. - but sending copies to the bank is fine -

offer to meet dg at your branch on your lunch hour - after your work, on a saturday.. - i think it highlights that it's their job and you are doing it on your own time.

[jimclark]

Hi Lateralus, No, "fool" didn't enter into my thinking. Working above and beyond the call of duty by replying to my thread at 11:05 on a Friday night did attract my attention, though!!

So, I'll send my letter to the court, copy to the bank and to DG and impress on DG how hard I am working to comply with the wishes/directive of Judge Molle at Colchester court! I'll suggest that I meet DG at my local HSBC branch (which according to my satnav is 147 miles from their office). I'm sure they'll be delighted to accept!

[jimclark]

I think I'll demonstrate that I'm being ultra reasonable by arranging to meet them at HSBC Bank, 132 High St, Huntingdon on a Saturday morning. This is about halfway between us. You never know, they might turn up - but I'm placing a bet on hell freezing over first!

[jimclark]

Did you see the latest in the bank charges saga? BBC NEWS | UK | Bank test case needed, judge says

[lateralus]

i'm just so miffed at this judge in hull saying he's going to rule out 20 peeps - just like that - based on the lloyd's case -

i thought small claims didn't set precedent. i'm really glad my son's case is done and dusted - looks like it is getting harder now.